My problem is its 4 am - I'm not as pure as shooey - and I dont have the full adobe installed that allows me to extract pages painlessly..

I want to also add two other disturbing elements I see around.

1. An inability to learn.

2. A belief that a man has to dress a certain way always or he is a fraud.

Inability to learn. I see quite a few on the other forums who seemingly have been getting things made up for years. Today, they are making the same choices. It would be alright if the they knew what they were doing but by definition and result they cannot. Why would one want to know everything before they learn?; and why bother with clothing forums if you already know everything? Years later they have no accumulated wisdom. How is that possible? I came to this space with something of a head start and I have learned and changed quite a bit. Maybe it's me? I don't think I could ever be interested in something I couldn't continually improve at.

The second is more disturbing really because it demonstrates a form of projection. The idea that you are what you wear and should wear it without deviation doesn't so much suggest to me a love of tradition but an off the chart superficiality and weakness of character that you are in danger of becoming what you wear or that people (themselves most of all) will judge you if you wear something they believe does not conform to an imaginary, tightly defined norm. I could understand it if it applied to something purposefully outrageous such as a bondage suit or a tutu in a banking atmosphere but this is usually applied to a pocket square. They also have glass jaws when it comes to criticism. Could it be that a group which declaims the slumping standards of other people and judge with impunity, live a life of quiet desperation when it comes to the fear of being judged?

Maybe it's an impossible dream but there are so many fascinating things to learn about clothing, the idea that you would both never develop and become smug about not doing so is astonishing to me. Style is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving.