I think ideas have changed as to what makes something have value, is it the workmanship and the quality, or now, is the logo enough if it symbolises wealth and prosperity? I used to make a lot of things for Ralph, and the quality was not as good as our own brand, and although we still had European royalty snapping up our furniture, if the average punter in Harrods saw the Ralph badge, even though that furniture was made to a lesser standard, but by the same factory, (unknown to them obviously) they'd still go for the Ralph, because of the brand connection. To be fair Ralph does make is stuff visually appealing, but it's lacking in other areas. I think it is the same with clothes to a degree.

That's a pretty big factor too.

^Aye. All symbol signifying....nothing. Well, not quite: the preppy and aspirational dreams of the consumer.

You can look at a brand like RL through the perspective of a Burroughs word/logo-virus and you see the marketing and game is just to replicate the logo at extreme profit. Now, some of RL's stuff is not bad: some of the cuts on the chinos, the original Green aftershave and some of the fabrics and colours of the oxfords (not the cut of course). But I think there is a growing trend against the logos, what was once select is now common place and the common man is getting sussed to all this inclusive exclusive marketing schmuck and preppy fantasy.

RL to me seems completely preppy and at odds with the Ivy ideal, as Bop has pointed out. Does anyone here still wear RL, I doubt it.

Is anyone wearing Ivy to connect with the youthful, bright naive young things of Cape Cod? Then there's the likes of Muffy, selling this vibe to the middle aged. Perverse.

Prep is unlike Ivy and Trad because Prep doesn't give a shit about the past and doesn't want to. Trad longs for a time when men were men, when the world was responsible and moral, when quality was quality and America was America.  The pantheon of Trad heroes contains a high number of politicians and businessmen. Ivyists seek to relive, re-experience, or take some small part in the time of America's great contributions to both high culture and "good" consumerist culture. Both styles seem to want to indicate that the present is fallen and insufficient, that American culture, be it morally, politically, or artistically, culturally, has fallen from the state of grace in which it once existed.

Prep can take the past and fuck with it (a little or a lot) because it doesn't want to re-inhabit the past. The current moment is just fine for Prep. It is a youth style just like Ivy was in the 1960s, and youth styles tend not to remind the wearer that one day they will be old by imploring them to seek timeless clothing. Prep says "wear green pants because you're young and fit and handsome, and yeah, you can pull it off, don't worry, it's summer and that girl over there has green pants too." Is it a mass market thing? Of course. But there is cheap mass-market Prep and esoteric, expensive connoisseur Prep just as there was cheap mass-market Ivy and expensive esoteric connoisseur Ivy. 

One of the fascinating things about old Ivy ads is the amount of lifestyle-ism that is present (a 1950s invention, modern advertising). Think of names like Arrow "Cum Laude," and PhD (Philosophy of Dress) and "Cricketeer Young Executive" and tell me they didn't promise belonging to the culture of the educated and the prosperous. Even more straightforward Ivy ads assured the potential buyer that he was buying "authentic" Ivy, that this purchase assured his membership to the cognoscenti of this new style, that he could be the BMOC by buying a shirt.

The name Ivy League is an aspirational name. They didn't call them "State School Clothes" afterall.

Last edited by The Thin Repp (2012-05-17 05:51:57)

^ Very well put

And this is why I don't mind Prep on young people, out of the 3 main styles of dress for youth; hip hop bad boy, skinny jean/converse boot sack o' crap and prep, give me prep any day. Badly made? bad cloth/cut? I've seen enough of all three made in the boom years to last a life time. Its all mass produced, what do people expect? Hand sewn button holes? At least with modern mass producing patterns are matched these days.

Thongs in Australia are flip flops in the Unites States.  It doesn't get warm enough in England to wear them.

I could read your posts all day Zach. Great. I gotta get me some green pants!