Hepcat - Your point about war is very much to the point. War IS hell and so should be executed as such. That's how wars get won. The idea that wars can be fought successfully with a Sportsman-like rule book is one which fails again and again. You have to give the other side more hell than they give you. A Sportsman might say to that yes, but within limits. The Gamesman's point of view would be to ask the Sportsman if he wanted to win or not. War indeed can't be 'played' like a game of Rugby.

Funny that many of our ideas of 'Gentlemanliness' today come on the whole from a period which was originally seem as rather effete and feminised. The ideals of Gentlemen who weren't originally viewed as behaving like Gentlemen.

Men set the rules for women once and then women took over set the rules for men ?

All we can agree on is that all this rule enforcing & following is pretty sterile and always doomed to fail.  The natural dynamism of mankind will always work against it.

Not a bad thing ?

The Gamesman spirit will always be there working against the anal Sportsman. 

   It's a fun talking point & does indeed develop on the latest ChensvoldGate on Talk Ivy...

As for the reality of all of this -  Pfffffffft !

Only the Internet, isn't it ?

I just don't think you need to play the game Jim.

WWII was won by the allies: primarily the industrial might of the USA/the limitless manpower resources and sacrifice of Russia reinforced by the stoic Brits punching for the last time as a global power. That war was won on the superior resources and Hitler’s increasingly erratic and superstitious game plan. There are few examples of sportsmanship in that war, but there are notably exceptions, the North Africa campaign for example. The ultimate example of gamesmanship has to be the dropping of the atomic bomb. The biggest bastards won, but the most creepy evil bastards lost.

I’ve had the displeasure of working with a number of Bengal Lancers with fake CV’s and credentials a couple of times. In my experience, if the organisation is weak enough, these guys can quickly and effortlessly takeover, but they always get found out…..eventually. And there are lots of them out there, mainly Brits as it happens. In the last month, two CV’s have arrived on my desk with fake qualifications, one from a chap with an electrical engineering degree he did not have. I telephoned him to see if I could prod him and any guilt or shame would show, but all he wanted to talk about was being paid into his offshore company accounts.

What these guys realise, and some of them have made careers out of peddling fake qualifications, is that there are enough hardship locations and projects desperate to put bums on seats is that you can pretty much tailor your CV and career to suit, because no one is going to verify your credentials. Then there was the recent scandal of literally hundreds of Brits having their contracts terminated in Kazakhstan as they all had forged engineering degrees. Another popular source of unaccredited degrees is from the University of Canterbury (Seychelles), there’s a few of them pop-up on Linkedin, again very popular with Brits and paedophiles.

What these game players all realise, is that those working in dead-end factory jobs, toiling as technicians, or studying hard at universities following the established rules of the game are just mugs. Shame? These lads have none, again, that's a trait of mugs like you and me.

I have no problem blowing the living crap out of the enemy.  The main reason is that they would have no hesitation in doing that to me.  There is no such thing as collateral damage, their God meant them to be there.

Fun thread !

Not much we haven't touched on.

Bad sportsmanship punished.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18479244

Henman also got into trouble in his day  http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18477343

Yes, what must the aliens think?

Here we all are competing and/or cheating... How they must laugh at us. I wonder what is really at the root of it all?  I blame boredom. The curse of humanity since the start.