The joint is jumping... it's really jumping...
I'm working class, too. But from a family which valued a certain amount of autodidacticism. My dear old Dad would have been puzzled by Woody Allen. He wore Ivy without ever realising it was Ivy (or 'Ivy'). He simply picked up whatever he took a fancy to whilst mooching around Hartford. He introduced me to L.L. Bean, via a catalogue. He favoured Italian clothing in the 50s and had a long love affair with Satchmo. That side of the family came from the Derbyshire/Notts border country, my mother's from Middlesex. I had a lovely, lovely conversation with a Londoner in a swish place in South Audley Street last week, a second with another Londoner in a pub quite close to Chiltern Street. Neither of them were/are remotely geezerlike.
Wha' 'bawt who's the daddy ivy?
Kingstonian - who is a sound chap - sometimes talks about 'Geezer'. He is London. I was back in my old neighbourhood yesterday. It was rough but respectable in the 50s and 60s. Now it just looks a bit run-down. Where there used to be a fancy goods shop there is a takeaway with a massage parlour above. I had a shufti at my old school and at the Methodist chapel where we went on a Sunday afternoon to colour in pictures of Jesus and to give our parents a bit of P and Q. I expect my old Dad used to go and play a bit of Ben Webster. People looked out for you in those days. Not so sure about now. I live in a leafy conservation area, with woods and a stream at the back of my garden. You could live and die here and no-one would notice.
I always enjoy Kingstonians posts interesting "Geezer" lol, i actually live in the same borough as him.
I forgot to add my professional Cockney Danny Dyer story as he was mentioned yesterday.
I bumped into him in a supermarket chain a couple of years back.There he was pushing a shopping trolley
telling everyone who passed that he was "off his nut on charlie",What a muppet.Edith i get a similar feeling
when i visit my old area.However all the people that i knew have left and i find i have no attachment to the concrete.
Just the people always the people.To flip reverse what EUR said yesterday I hate London but love Londoners.
Regards To all.
What does London do to a person then?
I think sometimes you have to ask is that bravado we might put with a 'geezer' really coming from a good or a bad place. I think sometimes it gets misconstrued, a bit like how kids out to have a laugh more than cause a menace can be seen. I suppose my problem with 'geezer' is the glamorisation of the gangsters, ok if you are a gangster to act like that, but if you are just some chump, it soon reeks of BS to go around in the Danny Dyer style of things, one chap who has swayed my thoughts on chavs and geezers, is Plan B, I'm not saying he has all the answers but he seems very understanding of the situation people are in, in the inner-cities, and is quite savvy to how the media go about scapegoating etc.
I'm not sure what I'm on about now.. but there you go.
The ironic thing about so many of the 'Londoners' I have met, and my definition here restricts itself to those of white skin, working class background, and normally in suburban areas, is that they live in one of the world's great cities, an amazing, fascinating, unknowable mass of all expressions of humanity, yet they have the most closed minds you could ever come across. Always decrying the way the city has 'gone to seed', often accompanying this comment with underlying hints of racism, keen to move out, get to the seaside, or some anonymous town in the middle of nowhere with a mere smidgen of non-white occupants. They don't engage with what's in front of them, don't feel the buzz and energy of this incredible city. And then, the most ironic thing of all, is that they get all puffed up and proud of being a 'Londoner' when their relationship with the city is one of barely disguised hostility. Robert Elms, often as big an irritating professional geezer as you could find, did say something astute on this topic. His theory is that being a Londoner is a choice, you elect to belong. Many are born here and are never Londoners. Many move here and become Londoners - they embrace the unique dynamic of this often difficult city. I am very much in the latter camp which is why I find the geezer types so incredibly tedious. I used to go and watch Everton in London grounds but stopped going as I was becoming too irritated by all the pseudo-cockney bollocks around me and all the moronic 'get a job' stuff. Thankfully I believe the Danny Dyer types are rapidly becoming part of a dying, discredited way of looking at the world - one in which Kingstonian's mantra "everyone wants to be white, ideally with blue eyes" is laughably, hilariously off the mark. London is no longer the white geezers' playground mate - wake up! Hallelujah!
People will always get sucked into being a certain way, I found myself in Bray last night, and the Toffs were out in full effect, group mentality is a dangerous things I guess when it is about differences between people.
'The ironic thing about so many of the 'Londoners' I have met, and my definition here restricts itself to those of white skin, working class background, and normally in suburban areas, is that they live in one of the world's great cities, an amazing, fascinating, unknowable mass of all expressions of humanity, yet they have the most closed minds you could ever come across. Always decrying the way the city has 'gone to seed', often accompanying this comment with underlying hints of racism, keen to move out, get to the seaside, or some anonymous town in the middle of nowhere with a mere smidgen of non-white occupants. They don't engage with what's in front of them, don't feel the buzz and energy of this incredible city. And then, the most ironic thing of all, is that they get all puffed up and proud of being a 'Londoner' when their relationship with the city is one of barely disguised hostility.'
While I agree on some of the above points, I think it should be added that for many white, working class males life in London can
also be vicious, bleak and uncaring. It is often no wonder that so many 'move out'. It's not always about racism. That, in itself, is
a tedious argument. Myself and many of my odious white working class peasant friends are indeed cultured, well read and also
well dressed of course. We also love what modern London has to offer. I suspect you haven't been mixing with the right 'cockneys'!
French Quarter - you are right. I know lots of lovely Londoners, from the same working class background as me. I just get wound up by that ignorant attitude I sometimes encounter and Kingstonian's stuff often brings that mentality to mind. Up the Toffees!
Wot about the Toff side of London ?
As if the whole place is full of Geezers indeed...
Jesus, the toffs are worse than the geezers. I love London - far more than I love, say, Dublin or Paris; almost as much as I love Rome and Pisa. As soon as I walk out onto the Euston Road... marvellous... I love walking in cities: looking for the overlooked and neglected. A favourite walk is from Ray's to Camden High Street, then around into Parkway to an unassuming Italian. I must see if they open at lunchtime.
Same with NYC, Hep, I should have thought. (See the relevant article within 'The Syllabus'). It's about total atmosphere - or, for us, recapturing a moment and feeling via the imagination and using borrowed images from art, film, jazz, magazines etc. Soho retains a bit of magic, though, and the area around Chiltern Street is pretty interesting.
I like the concept of geezer, not sure how it works with Ivy though.
Ivy strikes me as relaxed, nonchalant, geezer sharp, buzzing. Ivy, Harris tweed, geezer mohair....
Sounds like chalk and cheese but.....but....
On the subject of London. Well, I like it. A fascinating city, soaked in the history of two millennia.
I heartily recommend Peter Ackroyd's book: London: A biography.
A book that can be dipped into rather than read from front to back.
^ A great book, on my shelf together with Fletcher, Nairn, Banks et al.
Geezer is an important alternative to 'frayed' which also gets much love on here. No, I do want threadbare collars.
The generation before me could remember hand-me-downs and 'make do'. People used to be glad to get out of their working clothes and put on some glad rags.