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#1 2007-04-09 03:15:06

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~salient/issues/061004/061004_thayerbasement.htm


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#2 2007-04-09 07:41:38

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

I can never get enough of anything like this.

Thank you.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#3 2007-04-09 15:36:14

rsmeyer
Member
From: Chevy Chase, MD
Posts: 751

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

 

#4 2007-04-09 17:01:41

tom222222
Member
Posts: 277

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

well, it had a lot to say, but virtually nothing about the Andover Shop. and his history was a little off. Most of today's prep fashions harken back to the 1920s, not the 1930s. (In the 30s everyone had lost their money and were just scraping by). Brooks published a 100 plus page catalog in the late 1920s. In the 1930s 8 pages would do. Those were hard times, unimaginable today. but the article was a nostalgic riff. the guy just had no idea what he was talking about.

 

#5 2007-04-09 18:16:27

Howard
Member
From: Drimtaidhvrickhilliohattan
Posts: 236

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

Horse Hockey

 

#6 2007-04-09 18:34:13

tripchauncey
Member
Posts: 568

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

 

#7 2007-04-09 19:39:03

captainpreppy
Member
Posts: 1536

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

Whatever criticisms one may have of that essay, these lines are a pure gem!

"The ugly rebelled against the beautiful, the noble, and ugliness has since come to be valued over beauty. Ugliness and ugly clothing in particular are now considered to be indications of a good soul. Ugliness implies pity for others who are ugly."

Last edited by captainpreppy (2007-04-09 19:39:41)

 

#8 2007-04-09 19:53:48

tom222222
Member
Posts: 277

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

"Horse Hockey". I hope you will elucidate.
Cap: I tried to get through it but it just made no sense. I mean, I know it was suppossed to be nostalgic. But my parents were born literally in 1920, they know what the 1930s were like. this guy sounds clueless. and where did he ever say anything about the Andover Shop? really?

 

#9 2007-04-09 22:15:07

Connemara
Member
Posts: 126

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

Cool article, Horace. Thanks for that.

 

#10 2007-04-09 22:33:03

Howard
Member
From: Drimtaidhvrickhilliohattan
Posts: 236

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

 

#11 2007-05-07 12:12:32

bandofoutsiders
Member
Posts: 432

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but does this idiot actually equate WASP "culture" with that of Ancient Greece!

Also, I don't mean to sound like too much of a literary critic, but doesnt anyone else sense some latent racism in this passage:

"Yet this culture, too, like all great cultures before it, would come to an end. It neither expected nor could withstand the slave revolt in men's fashion. The ugly rebelled against the beautiful, the noble, and ugliness has since come to be valued over beauty. Ugliness and ugly clothing in particular are now considered indications of a good soul"

And that bit about archways and content seen through form.  This man can discuss neither fashion nor aesthetics nor philosophy with any skill whatsoever.

I still can't get over the bit about the "slave revolt" whereby ugliness conquered all that was once beautfiful.  This is the same sort of windbaggery and doucebaggetry that i hear when people try to defend legacy practices at Ivy schools.  And since when does one's choice of clothing have even the slightest to do with "nobility"?

 

#12 2007-05-07 12:19:57

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#13 2007-05-07 13:10:50

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

The article only takes the subject of the Andover Shop--with an opening like a novel--and then turns into a poor man's Nietzsche.

If that's the sort of literary/esthetic criticism that Harvard now produces, it's insulting.

Last edited by Incroyable (2007-05-07 13:24:35)


Jukebox Babe

 

#14 2007-05-07 14:07:05

bandofoutsiders
Member
Posts: 432

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

Absolutely.  He treats the ugliness vs. "noble" (i.e. traditionalist) style debate as though the two were aesthetic imperatives and not merely a choice.  Personally, I don't think anyone actually puts on a pair of trousers and wonders:  "what do these say about my soul?"..... Granted, one's choice of dressing does involve and element of self-objectification, of modeling the self in a way that one wants to be perceived in the eyes of others.  This is not 'posing" so much as existing in a social world.  This does not mean that one must abide by one of two choices, wearing either "noble" clothes or "ugly" clothes.  Personally i feel more subversive in my bow ties than I've ever felt in a pair of ripped Levis.  Not that i don't love my "Ugly" yet "Noble" Levis.  and since when is Ugly and absolute?  i happen the think double pleats are hideous.  does this mean that all the double pleat wearers at my office and my double pleat devoted father have succumbed to the "slave revolt" of pleated over unpleated? 

These are garments.  At best, a garment is a marvel of craftsmanship, something to be loved, but most importantly, WORN.  This is neither rocket science nor theoretical physics nor abstract expressionism.

 

#15 2007-05-07 16:47:56

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

It's like a hodge-podge of Clement Greenburg's "Avant-Garde & Kitsch", Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, Kant, Ortega y Gasset mixed in the blender to produce a self-consciously traditional manifesto. It's Post-modernist in the worst sense even when he overtly attempts to subvert the PoMo paradigm.


Jukebox Babe

 

#16 2007-05-07 20:56:31

Coolidge
Member
Posts: 1192

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

Last edited by Coolidge (2007-05-07 20:56:43)

 

#17 2007-05-07 23:53:22

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)


Jukebox Babe

 

#18 2007-05-08 01:54:24

Twin Six
Member
From: WASP in Tokyo
Posts: 1486

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

 

#19 2007-05-08 02:07:21

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

In suitable irony, here is our junior philosopher mentioned on the website that features Manton's various articles:

http://www.I'm being a wanker at the moorg/projects/pageID.288/default.asp

If someone like him could become a Deputy Editor at a famous university publication, then Howard should be writing on the New Yorker staff!

Last edited by Incroyable (2007-05-08 02:09:16)


Jukebox Babe

 

#20 2007-05-08 02:16:08

Twin Six
Member
From: WASP in Tokyo
Posts: 1486

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

We need a new thread: Clothes Widely Considered Intellectually Pretentious.

 

#21 2007-05-08 03:05:24

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#22 2007-05-08 05:24:44

Twin Six
Member
From: WASP in Tokyo
Posts: 1486

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

In honor of young Julius, our bard of the Andover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrShK-NVMIU&mode=related&search=

 

#23 2007-05-08 06:21:21

bandofoutsiders
Member
Posts: 432

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

This is HILARIOUS!  I wasn't expecting him to be a KID.  But come to think of it, he writes like a kid, a kid with a very gifted vocabulary but nothing to actually say.  I wonder if he actually dresses like someone who shops at the Andover.  In light of recent developments it seems as if the essay may be total BS composed by a kid who wanted to write about a Harvard landmark but doesnt actually know anything about it. 
Speaking of which, where exactly is the Andover shop?  I've probably walked by it 500 times.  it doesnt sound like the sort of place i would shop, but I am in the market for a seersucker suit.....

 

#24 2007-05-08 06:49:38

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#25 2007-05-08 07:14:33

Tony Ventresca
Member
Posts: 5132

Re: article on the Andover Shop (sort of)

 

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