Last edited by The_Shooman (2012-10-19 11:59:47)

Last edited by Oldfruit1 (2012-10-20 14:00:04)

Last edited by The_Shooman (2012-10-21 02:05:59)

I would add that its not just shoemakers who indulge in marketing along the lines of this will last you a lifetime, its also widely purported in the tailoring world as well. you often hear people say, a bespoke suit will last you a lifetime IF 'cared for properly'. i understand why they do this, its to make you think that its a good value proposition, as you naturally then think ok well the suit costs £3.5k .. over lets say the next 25 years of wear it would work out to be £140 pa which is sort of reasonable. however, in my experience a suit will last 5-7 years before the wool starts to wear down, the trousers fray and rip, and it loses shape. this is with a reasonable rotation of several suits (maybe 5 or 6) & not wearing 2 days in a row etc. now if you look in more details of what tailors suggest, they would suggest you have 5/6 suits each season! not to mention sport jackets and blazers etc. this creates a huge rotation so obviously each piece is likely to last 20/30 years as you are wearing so infrequently. however how many even well off people are going to keep a rotation of ~20 bespoke suits (this is ~£70k)?

when you buy clothes or shoes, be aware of the reality of these things, and buy accordingly so if you can only afford to spend £140 a year  buy a £700-900 suit (£140 * 5 - 7 years). suits are made of woven wool not chainmail so its not going to last indefinately irrelevant of what a salesman spins to customers

Last edited by Oldfruit1 (2012-10-21 05:23:30)

A few points. I often hear folks say that something is properly done because it has been done like that for a long time and in millions of copies by large Cos that know what they are doing. This is partly a false statement/notion. Large well run companies MAY know what they are doing and that is turning a profit for owners or share holders. Turning a profit is job 1 and something a agree with. The market says that profit must be ever greater. Well maybe. Regardless all other factors are secondary. One exceptional way (prably the best) of turning a profit is reducing your manufacturing cost.

As such this leeds company's such as those that make cars to say they make the best cars possible. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They make the most production cost efficient vehicle possible!  Why do cars rust? Why is it even acceptable for a car to rust? Seriously. Back in 1934 there were 4 cars made entirely of stainless steel (don't know which grade/type) that exist to this day rust free. Look at a DaLorean that only had a stainless skin!.  I heard one car engineer once on TV from the big 3 say SS was a mistake, was inappropriate and that you can't paint it. That was and is such complete fu...ing bullshit, but you know almost everyone would buy that line! In fact there are so many corrision resistant/immune alloys that could be used in cars its not funny. Hell why did it take so long for most Cos to start using dual phase steel for passenger cage frame. and they did so only after Volvo had been using it for 10 years. Cost and only cost is the reason for all the above. The motto should be "we make things bloody cheap that look good because you don't know the difference and care even less".

In fact today we live in a world where almost noone cares about how things are made. Where the average male might live in a condo and doesn't even have a tool box and has his local garage change tires for him. These guys are clueless and don't care about construction detail. I have many dozen great male friends and family members that are genuinely intelligent and thoughtful people but when it comes to knowing about how things are made or how to properly make anything (actually just even cooking) they are so completely inept it is sad. Or perhaps ignorance is bliss (probaly true). No body knows or cares how to make anything anymore and the odd guy/gal that does is an OCD nerd or freak.

It is so clear that gemming fails and fails frequently that it is almost not worth mentioning. One of the main causes is perspiration. The acidic salts from perspiration can destroy the canvas/glue interface in as little as 6 months from someone who perspires alot (ask me how I know). I am a fairly trim athletic person and when I walk, I walk, I don't mosey about and I am always running hot in our over heated environments made for wusses. This plays havoc on gemming, GUARANTEED, but few care!

Keep in mind a still buy gemmed shoes, but I will never say they are the best possible. Best possible is now only bepoke territory. And make no mistake that properly made bespoke anything can last ages. I actually have a cement construction (not even blake) dress show bought 15 years ago where the leather and glues are so good that they are holding strong and beautiful after a very tough life. There is only minor glue failure in certain spots. Keep in mind these shoes were topied so have never been resoled. The same shoee with a hand carved holdfast/stitched construction would still be as perfect today as the day it was made. part of the reason is obviously the leathers which back then were simply better. Nowadays omnipresent growth hormones have lead to a deterioration in quality of even the highest quality skins.
That said if you are using something like freudenberg calf with an english kip lining in your shoes, even though not as good as before, these can last a very very long time under continuous use. This is why for instance a JLP rtw shoe can be resoled several times because the upper is so good in comparison to it's gemming/sole.

As for suits a have a few under constant rotation at about 40 wears per year pushing 7 years now that are only starting to go shiny. Keep in mind that i am a light weight and therefore don't put much abrasive stress and the cloth but still. And this is for my rtw suits. I have bepokes with cloths much more substantial that will surely last longer. Things can last very long if well made.