Unfortunately, Manton doesn't know anything about TNSIL or Ivy either.
So I cannot agree with you Terry, on that point.
Manton was just being small-minded, when he criticized.
I do not believe he knows what he's talking about (with Ivy League).
Boyer, I would listen to, even Flusser to some extent.
But not Mantoni.

I've said somewhere, elsewhere on FNB that I thought AlanC's photo was a sad joke; the fit and colours of his clothes made him look like a clown. Others posted much, much better photos, even measured by the creations & fantasies of old Harry.

Oh well, it's all inside baseball.
Even with us, here.

(I am a fount of negativity today.)

TV

Distinguishing between trad, preppy, and ivy seems just a bit of trolling to me.

Good points.

I think a lot of the confusion (and, for some, anxiety) about defining this stuff stems from the fact that is no longer the "style of the day;" it isn't possible today to put together a wardrobe of this stuff unconsciously or "naturally."  It's a debatably moribund style, and one that requires special effort to learn about and acquire. 

Anyone under a certain age interested in dressing Ivy or Trad or whatever can't avoid self-consciousness.  This makes some people awfully twitchy.

I've read through the excellent "Boom Years" thread, and as far as I can tell, "Trad" isn't really at odds with Ivy, it's just a narrower subset.  It is, I guess, a more conservative approach, with a special fondness for nautical and sporting motifs that I don't particularly get excited about.

I'm sticking with my mid-century "Americana" designation (I know the world has been waiting with baited breath to hear that).  That encompasses everything I like.

Right, I remember that now.  Thanks, Trip.

So the distinction is mainly attitudinal.  And Ivy probably doesn't go in so much for things like bright pastel green, yellow, and red pants?  Trad incorporates a lot more sporty/Preppy elements, it seems.  Kind of fratty.  It's a nice look.  I prefer to be more emphatically retro/boho.  When I have to dress in "CBD" mode, for a big horrible meeting or wedding or something, I guess I'm pretty full-on "Trad." 

Ivy is cooler, sleeker, more mod.  Right?

I'm in a great place to play around with all of this stuff--no one cares what you're wearing in New York.  My office has no dress code--some guys wear suits, some t-shirts and jeans.  I can get away with anything I want--I wore a white oxford, jeans, ribbon belt, madras jacket, and sockless loafers the other day, and no one batted an eye.

Totally "inappropriate" office wear, but I was hot, it was comfortable, and I was just in the mood. 

In the circles I move in (non-profit/creative professionals, pothead musicians, comic book geeks, teachers), there are no more clothing "rules." People wear what they want when they want. 

I like this Americana stuff.  I like everything from that era, and it's a way to embrace my classic nerddom and turn it into style.

Wes Anderson Trad?

Sorry I missed all this yesterday - I was at J. Simons buying a tie & having an all too quick chat with the great man re: The old Brooks & the old Haspel (I'll post on it later).

I think in a nutshell what we all like is the American Traditional Natural Shoulder Ivy League style (TNSIL) - if we like these clothes at all.
Because we like these clothes we call them by their proper and historically correct name: The Ivy League Style. This is the name that you will find the style called by in pre '04 writings on the subject. It is the name that everybody understands.

"Trad" is an internet lifestyle game. An update on the "Preppy" lifestyle spoof.

If we are serious about this style we should be concentrating on it seriously in my book and not playing "Curriculums" and all those other games which have no basis in reality.

I'd like the impact & influence of the Classic American Ivy style appreciated and discussed properly on the Net. in all it's aspects - even including the Brooks natural shouldered double-breasted style.

"Trad" can be played out elsewhere as a game for lightweights, spoofsters and trolls. Why not? It's all internet fun.

But nobody who is serious about this style has any place buying into it or calling Ivy League by this new made up name "Trad".

"Trad" as a game has been going on for far too long now and there are fools out there who believe that it and it's rules of dress are real. They are not. They are an ill-informed interpretation of Ivy League style only, and a very limited and limiting interpretation at that. A pale and very silly echo.

We should leave it behind and let the nebbishes play their game in their ill-fitting and garish clothes. They simply do not know what they are talking about when it comes to discussing this style and I deeply resent their assumed ownership of what classic American style is all about. It's as if a bunch of morons had latched on to Savile Row style and were playing around calling themselves "Rowers", making up silly rules as they went along.

Time to move on.

IMVHO.

David