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#1 2006-10-14 07:43:26

Miles Away
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From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

I like the film (Metrop.) & I like the phrase.
In England the real money is in the country as it has always been. Of course.
There was a time when 'No Gentleman lived in London' (Jilly Cooper - 'Class'). One had a place there, but one's home was always in the country. The real country, that is. Not Surrey.
And, although wildly out of date, that is still the English Fogey point of view. Those for whom the clock stopped in 1938.

American Fogies can tell me how it is in America. Is it the opposite? Home in the city & a cottage in the country or at the coast? I've been reading Auchincloss again... (!)... I think that works nicely too.

I think attitudes to money are different too between Whit Stillman's American UHB and whatever we have in England that comes close to it.
Americans, I think, use their money to do more. The English use their money to do less. Money is insulation in England - It can stop you doing things you don't want to do & from meeting people you don't want to meet. Even travel in pre-WWII England was thought the hallmark of the 'Vulgar Rich' (Vogue - I'll dig out the attribution if anyone's interested). Nonsense, of course. But it wasn't entirely back then.

This thread reprises a little bit of 'Fogey' for those who loved it back in the old days. Never was a thread of mine so popular...

I'm nothing if not a crowd pleaser.

If anybody wishes to enjoy the richness of the Fogey experience & compare America & England in this way then they will get my full & honest attention (Just like back in the old days) .
'Fogey' is a construct, it is true. But all I will ever tell you on the subject will be, as ever, true.

Fogey was not for me, but it may be for you. Enjoy it.
Let me show you how.

Your old Uncle - Russell Street

Last edited by Miles Away (2006-10-14 07:45:06)


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#2 2006-10-14 08:25:41

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Compare & contrast:

The American Gentleman is a pillar of his community through his honesty. He means what he says.

The English Gentleman is a pillar of his community through his dishonesty. He says what is needed to be said.

No real English Gentleman ever behaves like a Gentleman. He knows the rules, but they're not much to do with him. They would get in the way of a good time. He will enforce the rules on others if needed - That is what the rules are for - But for him he likes things a little more laid back. Sloppy even.

Those aspiring to be English Gentlemen are the ones with the good manners and perfect appearance. The real article breaks wind in church and blames it on his niece (You couldn't make this stuff up you know...). All the polite, productive people in England are usually far from blue-bloods. They're just nice guys keen to get on.

And yet the English Gentleman is such an icon in the popular imagination. He isn't real, but we all feel that he should be.
Probably the last 'English Gentleman' was Lord Chesterfield. His letters to his son are very correct. What a faker! A real English Gentleman would have stressed the importance of not getting caught above all else.
Its so hard to know what to teach the young...

As ever, Uncle Russell has plenty more for those who want it...


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#3 2006-10-14 11:18:51

Miles Away
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From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

We ought to move on to clothes here...

Tweed and Corduroy should make a good foundation to this thread and very seasonal to boot.

It's been a misty day down here in Gloucestershire, and as the colour changes in the trees so do our Tweeds. Green would stand out too much now in the country. The rabbits would see us coming a mile off. No rabbitts no supper. Time for the Browns and Russets to come out of the wardrobe, giving way to the Sandy tones at the very end of Autumn preparing the way for the Winter hardly-there-at-all-shades of plain Buff Covert cloth.

Now more than ever we need the stout soles of our brogues. Being well shod is the start to anything in this life. Anything worthwhile that is...

(I am, of course, lazing 'round in Weejuns. But then again I'm a demnned bad hat.)

Who still reads Surtees here? And Captain Gronow?

Fogey is Back!

Russell Street.

Last edited by Miles Away (2006-10-14 11:33:25)


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#4 2006-10-14 13:29:36

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Mission Statement:

Unlike the last Forum where I gave my take on the Fogey style in England as a sort of cartoon, over here on FNB I'd like to explore the full richness of the style from Alf Garnet to The Duke of Edinburgh. Any American Fogey contributions could only be a plus.
Fogey for everyone!


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#5 2006-10-14 13:35:59

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

1) Anybody still read Flashman?

2) Cordings, Smart Turn Out, Pakeman's - All of them use Yorkshire Corduroy. Where is this mill? Near Hebdon bridge? Any Fogey know?

3) Fine, Affordable, Fogey Footwear in the new Shipton & Heneage Catalogue. Even some good heavy American style brogues for the likes of defectors like me. Especially good is the extended range of country footwear, seeing as I am kicking this rebirth of Fogey off with Tweeds. Much more in the catalogue than on the website (unless they have updated the website).

Fogey for everyone!


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#6 2006-10-14 14:20:24

rsmeyer
Member
From: Chevy Chase, MD
Posts: 751

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

My wife used to be a member of the Surtees Society.

 

#7 2006-10-14 15:08:50

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Last edited by Miles Away (2006-10-15 04:46:33)


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#8 2006-10-14 15:10:30

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

The Surtees society last published Gronow too.

Good show.


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#9 2006-10-15 01:21:36

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

An interesting thing about Fogey clothing is that it is originally camouflage. The clothes were all about blending into your environment - Tweeds the colour of the country around you, Grey suits the colour of the city. Yet by wearing these 'correct' clothes in archaic cuts and with anachronisic attention to detail (and, indeed, details) the Fogey dresser does not blend into the modern world at all. He stands out wonderfully.
An interesting form of peacock.


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#10 2006-10-15 04:33:33

rsmeyer
Member
From: Chevy Chase, MD
Posts: 751

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

To Miles Away: Mrs. Meyer stopped riding some years ago after shattering her shoulder on a fall from horseback, but is still a great fan of the equestrian sports.

 

#11 2006-10-15 04:45:34

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#12 2006-11-10 05:23:28

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Little bump for all the Fogeys on the MBs.

T.L.


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#13 2007-06-10 23:45:09

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#14 2007-06-10 23:46:34

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

The Seeds of UHB's Destruction were Found in the Ethos of UHB itself.
   -- Hortensia Krishna


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#15 2007-06-10 23:54:40

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

I suppose that's why people have to work in America, even if they are wealthy. At the very least you have to have several charities, however dubious the merits, under your proverbial belt.


Jukebox Babe

 

#16 2007-06-11 01:32:17

Terry Lean
Member
Posts: 2440

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Last edited by Terry Lean (2007-06-11 01:35:41)


"One of these mornings
You're going to rise up singing"

 

#17 2007-06-11 05:03:34

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...


Jukebox Babe

 

#18 2007-06-11 07:56:59

eg
Member
From: Burlington, ON
Posts: 1499

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

 

#19 2007-06-11 17:19:11

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...


Jukebox Babe

 

#20 2007-06-11 17:34:41

Viscount Tangent
Member
Posts: 350

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Everytime I do anything productive, God kills a kitten. Hence I am idle.

 

#21 2007-06-11 17:37:47

Incroyable
Member
Posts: 2310

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

The best profession is to be idly rich in America. They frown on it and that's precisely the point.


Jukebox Babe

 

#22 2007-06-11 18:17:07

eg
Member
From: Burlington, ON
Posts: 1499

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Idleness, is, I suppose, the ultimate luxury.

 

#23 2007-06-11 22:15:53

Horace
Member
Posts: 6433

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

Speaking of "do"ing as is pointed out above.  I almost think that the "do" is less important than the "make".  So you have some silly job in (broadly speaking) finance, and you don't really "do" much of anything, at least not commensurate with your pay.  Those who are honest with themselves will know what I mean.

Another related point:  very rarely is the do acknowledged as such.  It's the make that is connected to it that is approved of.  So for instance, very few care that you're a lawyer (or even about the idea that such might represent), as much as such a title signals often absurd amounts of money for little work.  Or at least any significant work beyond putting in a lot of hours.   I mean, if a guy tells me he's working 18 hours a day at the Advanced Institiute of Princeton, I'm impressed.  If a guy tell's me he's working 18 hours at Williams & Connolloy or Brown Bros. I'm not.


""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.

 

#24 2007-06-12 09:00:29

eg
Member
From: Burlington, ON
Posts: 1499

Re: Whit Stillman's UHB - For Fogies/Fogeys...

 

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