You are not logged in.

#51 2013-11-21 17:04:24

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: On Taste...

Of the many issues which touch on taste in clothes, the concept of art is one and the ability to communicate talent in taste is another.


When i say art, i mean the ability to determine what is and is not attractive in terms of colors, textures and patterns.

Color matching between accessories is the most common route. Sometimes this can be done well but just as often a man will force the concept of color matching to the point where it is either forced or the attempt is several mismatched shades of the same color which deduct from the art of the outfit. For example, sometimes several different shades of orange for shirt, tie, pocket square and socks will look awful even though the wearer believes it all integrates into a more tasteful, matched whole.  In any case, the concept of art with regards to clothing colors and patterns can be a trap because although one should understand that art can play a part in what is pleasant to see, it is sometimes at odds with the actual message a man needs to send with his clothes. Ex. It might be artistic to wear a blue, shirt, with blue suit, tie, pocket square, socks and even shoes but such an art would be best left to someone who is an actual artist. This would be a failure for your typical chartered accountant and if done poorly enough could make people question his judgment (taste!).

But there is also the pretense a man can have when he reads what another "expert" writes is an indication of taste and he pretends he hasnt read this book but asserts that this is in fact a known rule always known and exercised by people with good taste. This I will refer to as "Fronting". A perfect example of fronting  is where Author Alan Flusser wrote about not matching tie and pocket square materials (silk with silk or linen/cotton with linen/cotton) and also not wearing matching tie and pocket square patterns.


Mr. FLusser wrote this at a time when most Americans wore printed ties and there were few well done woven pocket squares. The idea is that a glossy or wet finish printed tie with clash with the same in a printed handkerchief.  Now, with more men wearing woven ties a printed handkerchief goes nicely. Thus, there is no need to anxiously fret about placing a linen/cotton pocket square with a silk tie to avoid perceptions of "bad taste".

For matching tie and pocket square sets. Mr. FLusser again wrote at a time when the available sets may have been very poor quality or tacky. Also it was not the fashion in the USA for sophisticated men to do so. Additionally, men wore more jacket and tie outfits then. Now there are stunning matching tie and pocket square sets which can be quite sophisticated in an age where men wear less ties overall and you get points for doing your own thing. We also are in a more International age in terms of mens clothing which is quite different from the mostly American look Mr. Flusser was writing about. Ironically, wearing a matching tie and pocket square would always be more artistic and one would think the practitioners of the first fronting practice mentioned in the previous paragraph would embrace it. But the social condemnation forms an artistic rule all by itself which blocks a more natural artistic result. Thus, culture often determines art in clothing.

And, in any case, the fronters are missing the point because it's not always whether it is done at all but HOW it is done.  Thus, the misplaced superciliousness of someone who follows a set of outdated rules poorly and with bad ingredients vs. someone who breaks that perceived code and does it with flair.

 

#52 2013-11-22 00:01:13

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: On Taste...

 

#53 2013-11-22 00:12:02

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: On Taste...

As for colour the most interesting thing ive read and worked with recently is the idea of consonance, dissonance and tensions (when a colour is dissonant as well as consonant to other colours in the palette). This relates to the relationships between the intervals of colours. The idea being you have a mix of all three in a palette including neutrals to create what id describe as the full story. This doesnt limit you to 3 colours but it has to be above three to create the effect otherwise you just have consonance or dissonance. Which does not deliver the same amount of interest to the eye

 

#54 2013-11-22 08:00:46

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: On Taste...

 

#55 2013-11-22 10:07:23

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: On Taste...


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#56 2013-11-22 10:41:51

Goodyear welt
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 3089

Re: On Taste...

I think that matching pattens or colour either in contrast or otherwise is either something one can do, or can't. It doesn't seem to be something a man can teach himself. I saw a man the other day in a white/lilac striped shirt with a red and blue tie and white PS worn with a navy suit. From this I have deduced that red and lilac look really bad together. He could have gone with a number of colours. Maybe he suffered from some colour blindness.

I love looking at companies (Italian mainly) new season collections for the way they put together textures, colours and patterns.


Rocking traditional, current and classic Italian Ivy since 2011.

 

#57 2013-11-22 11:39:51

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: On Taste...

The eye and the ear can be trained IMO. We are not (in general) taught visual language at school. I was lucky enough to study music and art. And for somethings I had a grasp of it other things I learnt. A good argument for natural ability vs dedication and applied study is picasso and matisse. Both greats but one a natural the other dedicated to improving himself and learning because of his lack of natural ability.

Another good example is I couldnt tune a guitar when I bought one. With practice I could.  I trained my ear and the idea a brain cant be trained goes against a lot of research to suggest otherwise.

I would say like with any system it can be taught. Its just the fact that art unlike language does not get taught in a way that gives the student rules and structure.  Youll always get naturals but art/design is not magic or mystery the basis of beauty is in mathematics. A good artist or designer is someone who has become aware consciously or sub-consciously of the system of visual language.

 

#58 2013-11-22 11:46:48

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: On Taste...


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#59 2013-11-22 11:47:14

Goodyear welt
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 3089

Re: On Taste...

Well, this bloke was about 40 and to me it was glaringly obvious that red didn't go with lilac. And I didn't want to tell him. It was a shit suit anyway.


Rocking traditional, current and classic Italian Ivy since 2011.

 

#60 2013-11-22 11:59:11

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: On Taste...

Im not saying you're completely wrong soggs  but give me all the tools of your trade and I bet id do a terrible job of it. But if you taught me over a period of time id be better than being left to my own devices. We dont get this really with colour and people like to pretend its all a mystery.. its not. But do you have a wardrobe of jumpers ties shirts and trousers in all colours? Youve got to nail down the main colours that work for you then feed in a system of building around that.. I bet your ability is better now than when you started? I know mine is.. and it still has a way to go.. I enjoy learning

Last edited by Bop (2013-11-22 12:00:26)

 

#61 2013-11-22 13:29:12

Goodyear welt
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 3089

Re: On Taste...

Agreed Rob but,...if you've not got the idea by the time your 40 and have been ambling along regardless you'll never get it. Its no mystery but some men have to be told and some don't. I watched an interview with Edward Sexton in which he said the same thing.

Reminds me of a guy on MC years ago who was saying how religious he was about polishing shoes...he'd never heard of melting polish, or using water when shining up, hell, the guy didn't even take his laces out. Some men are just deluded about stuff because they don't know any better.


Rocking traditional, current and classic Italian Ivy since 2011.

 

#62 2013-11-22 14:20:15

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: On Taste...

Aye I guess but I still think,  especially when something is broken down into a system and taught it allows people who maybe void of natural ability to be able to begin to learn. But then I also guess on those rare occasion much like me with diy.. all hope is lost

 

#63 2013-11-23 04:24:26

Dudley Clarke
Member
Posts: 1211

Re: On Taste...

Last edited by Dudley Clarke (2013-11-23 04:43:36)


I came up to see her sometimes.

 

#64 2013-11-23 05:29:30

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: On Taste...


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#65 2013-11-23 05:50:29

Dudley Clarke
Member
Posts: 1211

Re: On Taste...


I came up to see her sometimes.

 

#66 2013-11-23 09:41:18

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: On Taste...

I've seen the anatomical student drawings of Lowry's and it was clear that he could draw faithful, true to life representations. I think the camera's effect on painting was limited to certain landscape and portrait artists, but the main movements were already going in a different direction. But I think digital image taking has had a more significant effect on the world of photography in the last decade.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#67 2013-11-23 09:49:53

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: On Taste...


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#68 2013-11-23 10:15:39

NJS
Member
Posts: 2358

Re: On Taste...

 

#69 2013-11-23 10:20:01

formby
Member
From: Wiseacre
Posts: 8359

Re: On Taste...


"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise." - Richard Merkin

Souvent me Souvient

 

#70 2013-11-23 10:26:36

NJS
Member
Posts: 2358

Re: On Taste...

Last edited by NJS (2013-11-23 10:27:47)

 

#71 2013-11-23 11:49:18

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: On Taste...

 

#72 2013-11-23 11:58:47

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: On Taste...


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#73 2013-11-24 15:44:54

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: On Taste...

 

#74 2013-11-24 19:45:52

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: On Taste...

 

#75 2013-11-25 03:43:29

NJS
Member
Posts: 2358

Re: On Taste...

Last edited by NJS (2013-11-25 04:05:57)

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2008 Rickard Andersson