Shall we compile our own?

lol.

I'm gonna listen to Stone in Love right now in your honor stans...

All the fuss and hand wringing about ill treatment of terrorist detainees in US custody seemed to go away overnight after the school massacre in Pakistan .....funny that.

Taken from a news report from 2001 that discussed America's aims in Afghanistan prior to the 9/11 attacks

"American oil companies have acquired rights to as much as 75 percent of the output of these new fields, and US government officials have hailed the Caspian and Central Asia as a potential alternative to dependence on oil from the unstable Persian Gulf region. American troops have followed in the wake of these contracts. US Special Forces began joint operations with Kazakhstan in 1997 and with Uzbekistan a year later, training for intervention especially in the mountainous southern region that includes Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan.
The major problem in exploiting the energy riches of Central Asia is how to get the oil and gas from the landlocked region to the world market. US officials have opposed using either the Russian pipeline system or the easiest available land route, across Iran to the Persian Gulf. Instead, over the past decade, US oil companies and government officials have explored a series of alternative pipeline routes—west through Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey to the Mediterranean; east through Kazakhstan and China to the Pacific; and, most relevant to the current crisis, south from Turkmenistan across western Afghanistan and Pakistan to the Indian Ocean.
The Afghanistan pipeline route was pushed by the US-based Unocal oil company, which engaged in intensive negotiations with the Taliban regime. These talks, however, ended in disarray in 1998, as US relations with Afghanistan were inflamed by the bombing of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, for which Osama bin Laden was held responsible. In August 1998, the Clinton administration launched cruise missile attacks on alleged bin Laden training camps in eastern Afghanistan. The US government demanded that the Taliban hand over bin Laden and imposed economic sanctions. The pipeline talks languished"

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The truth is the Taliban are a bunch of gangsters that have a neighbourhood, the US (a bigger gang) wanted that neighbourhood to get the pipe lines through. The Taliban said no. Next thing the US military are there.

With the Pakistan massacre, that had me nearly in tears thinking about it, we hear our press use barbaric, senseless, evil etc.

Well the fact is in military operations the Talibans children and wives get killed. The offical line is we dont target civilians, but I think we can all see that if you're trying to crush a people then typically everyone is going to get caught up. And we went knocking on their door.

My point is we or should I say, the US have created what weve lived through the last 15 years by aggression, subversion of a religion, and manipulation of the media, because they couldnt get what the desperately need in the region.

If you think any different to that than you've bitten hook line and sinker. American interest is paramount in global politics and do you think they stay at the top by being mr nice guy? Of course not, the cultural influence is so high in our media that they can change our perception of any situation to justify it and have us running scared against any enemy they create.

Im not saying there are better out there. You'll find Putin being infinitely more scary in my eyes. And then your left with which is better? Probably the devil you know especially when your on it's team.

Last edited by Bop (2014-12-21 00:10:51)

When I was in the sixth-form, I went on a history course to the Menai centre in Anglesey, we stayed in dorms and some of the Manc lads had a taped box set of New Order 12"'s and I have to say, listening to that shite all night for five days, put me off them for life. It was indeed torture.

So I would include anything, and everything by New Order, particularly their 12"s.

I would like to add Killing Me Softly by Roberta Flack. From an OU summer school at UEA in the 90s; whoever it was in my block obviously only had that one CD single with them and played it over and over. Like Patrick, I'm far more crabby these days and would search them out and tell them to pack it in. If ever a song was appropriately named......

I think ultimately you're both very confused and reacting in the way those that have orchestrated this would hope.

First off, would we have had the troubles in Ireland if we weren't there? No. Did Catholics, or the Catholic Christians cause the problems in Ireland through their religious teachings? Again no..what caused the problem was people resisting.

If we were German and we took half of Europe would we be suprised with a resistance? And in fact don't we celebrate resistance in that instance when a foreign aggressor takes land? 

So..


Would we have troubles in the Middle East if we weren't there? Again no.

We destabilise places for our own gain and then ignore that as the cause. We could've only gone into the Middle East with the pretex of self defence. How do we do that? We say we're going to catch terrorists. We clearly weren't, we were going to clear the Tailban out so we could secure pipelines, and were there terrorists in Iraq? No, did we make up the reason to go to war with Iraq? Yes.. and it seems that could at some point bite Tony Blair on the arse thanks to Desmond Tutu this week.

Hep says Islam is the problem, Islam is not the problem I can list many places were people are being treated terribly North Korea, Christain majority African countries where women have their genitals mutilated  etc. It is not a religion that is the problem, but tyranny that causes suffering. And that can cloak itself in what it wants.

I know the towns that our home grown terrorists have been brought up I and I can tell you one thing they are dead end shitholes that see failed young men often criminal pasts wanting to lash out. These guys are no worse than those loons that walk into high schools in America, they're disturbed inviduals that take to a cause, a lot like the guy in Sydney last week.

I have Muslim friends that are more respectful and humane than any other people I know. One guy even goes and gives prayers at churches if he passes a funeral??? I mean who even does that? When I asked him why he said because as a Muslim it is his duty.

If we focussed on what happens in Muslim countries and take away what the religion is and look at the injustice and corruption and our own aggression, and the fact its also sectarian which again makes the idea of it being one religion agaisnt another its again completely untrue.

What we have are people with differing interests and causes there is nothing in Islam that stops my friends intergrating with me, how ever if either us wanted Im sure we could make a list of things that could.

Its down to people to decide if they want to live together or not. And it's not religion that is the problem but how its used and percieved.

The threat is our aggression away from home, and our ignorance to the dead ends we have created for young people at home. But those two together and you have the fuel to feed a fire of extremists...in fact the people I know who get most up in arms against are again the ignored, failed, dejected and unloved young white men, no job, no wife or anything going for them that would take away a preoccupation in finding a cause or reason to vent their anger which is ultimately towards themselves.

Last edited by Bop (2014-12-22 02:18:59)

Of course, the problem is not all of Islam or Muslims, that is plainly absurd, but one of certain interpretations of this religion and those who see it as a vehicle of Arab supremacism, that would have my daughters as sexual slaves. That is an existential threat and fact - we ignore it at our peril, or to pretend it has nothing to do with religion is a bare-faced lie that we can't accept anymore.

We see the kind of society that this will create in the so called caliphate, note its popularity and sway over the populance:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/inside-isis-the-first-western-journalist-ever-given-access-to-the-islamic-state-has-just-returned--and-this-is-what-he-discovered-9938438.html

The warning is stark and clear.

Good to see the Pakistan justice system is moving swiftly, a lesson to us all.

Yes, it's all just a giant plot orchestrated by the FED and the oil companies and the CIA and the Bushes, not to forget the Bilderbergers and the freemasons, and, you , the East Coast...

It's well orchestrated and we're all sheep, puppets on a string, and actually it's very easy if you want to know what's going on, and you just have to ask the cui bono question...

Damn, a whole generation spoilt by Michael Moore.