I thought id move it over here...
Chief-
If someone is the derogatory term being used to describe them, then I think it's ok for them to use it if they wish and like I said make ownership of it, with this the context changes.
A forum member and myself had an issue over a word I used and although I was happy with it he wasn't (we share similar roots) so out of respect for him I dont use it now on the forum. It's very similar to when I'm with my father-in-law or cousins who are all Jewish they will initiate slurs and jokes about being Jewish.. I dont think theyre degrading themselves I think if anything they're taking the piss out of prejudice . So I don't see it being such a clear cut case, yes a word can very well be negative in origin but then in seperate contexts its use is subverted and therefore empowering if you want to go that far. Some might say it's still not and then we have the question over comprising over what we can say and how some people react to it.
Im not sure if you're insinuating that AC was being racist to WASPS. I may have missed your point about what was interesting about him using the term. But all I wanted to try and make clear was how although Ireland and the UK may seem like the same place to those far away..there are conflicting racial groups that only really in the last few years have begun to disappear. Old school people on either side maybe still harbour stuff.. and yes JFK was trying to get to the top of the pile in the US but his background was not WASP.. Irish people on the whole have little Anglo-saxon influence on their genetics.
But I understand the broader point Jeff and Oli were making
Last edited by Bop (2015-08-04 07:24:48)
Further to wheat intolerance and the Irish, here's an extract from Giraldus Cambrensis' Topographia Hibernica which may explain a lot:
"The Irish are a rude people, subsisting on the produce of their cattle only, and living themselves like beasts - a people that has not yet departed from the primitive habits of pastoral life. In the common course of things, mankind progresses from the forest to the field, from the field to the town and to the social conditions of citizens; but this nation, holding agricultural labour in contempt, and little coveting the wealth of towns, as well as being exceedingly averse to civil institutions - lead the same life their fathers did in the woods and open pastures, neither willing to abandon their old habits or learn anything new. They, therefore, only make patches of tillage; their pastures are short of herbage; cultivation is very rare and there is scarcely any land sown. This want of tilled fields arises from the neglect of those who should cultivate them; for theirs are large tracts which are naturally fertile and productive. The whole habits of the people are contrary to agricultural pursuits, so that the rich glebe is barren for want of husbandmen, the fields demanding labour which is not forthcoming."
Sounds about right. I think their eyes are funny too.
Of course in his "Description of Wales" Giraldus, describes his native bretherin thus:
"No one of this nation ever begs, for the houses of all are common to all; and they consider liberality and hospitality amongst the first virtues. So much does hospitality here rejoice in communication, that it is neither offered nor requested by travellers, who, on entering any house, only deliver up their arms. When water is offered to them, if they suffer their feet to be washed, they are received as guests; for the offer of water to wash the feet is with this nation an hospitable invitation. But if they refuse the proffered service, they only wish for morning refreshment, not lodging.
The young men move about in troops and families under the direction of a chosen leader. Attached only to arms and ease, and ever ready to stand forth in defence of their country, they have free admittance into every house as if it were their own. Those who arrive in the morning are entertained till evening with the conversation of young women, and the music of the harp; for each house has its young women and harps allotted to this purpose. Two circumstances here deserve notice: that as no nation labours more under the vice of jealousy than the Irish, so none is more free from it than the Welsh: and in each family the art of playing on the harp is held preferable to any other learning."
Again, you can't fault the man for accuracy.
Ha! Did he later go on to be the founding member of the Welsh Tourist Board?
AKA Gerallt Gymro.
Aka Gerry the Norman
I heard he didn't like the native Irish very much, although his Ma might be a distant relation of 12Bar being a Fitzgerald?
Gerallt doesn't mention anything about the Shirt making abilities of the Irish though, maybe it was something he imparted onto them?
I'm still amused at what can transpire if I step away from the forum for a day. I actually have my own set of derogatory terms I've made up for each of you.
I hope mine is twat bastard!
Yawn.
^They use to do that in Bala, I've witnessed it myself.
Bollocks.
What's welsh for "look at that bald guy in the madras jacket"?