Although I've commented above on the various hybridizations of the Ivy look with IBM and English, as well as the button-stances/darts variations, I have one more thought on that topic.

I would suspect that the classic Brooks suit...the 3-2 favorite...was probably more commonly found in NY or its suburbs (or offshoots thereof, like the colleges) than elsewhere.

In the city where the pictures I contributed are taken, I do not believe there was a Brooks Brothers until the 70s at the earliest.  There were only the local mens stores, of varying sizes.  Stackpole Moore & Tryon was the mainstay, the "Brooks" of the city, Henry Miller more adventurous and expensive, a sort of "Paul Stuart/Andover" but there was also E. Udolf, and across the river, Zahner's.   So I suspect the people of the city generally bought their suits in the city, not in New York, and thus wore whatever variations on the popular theme of the day those stores offered for sale.  This would explain Philadelphia's English tendencies and perhaps there were regional variances everywhere.

It seems more the kids at the time, like my father, were the ones who lived far from NY and yet got into the Brooks mail order catalog anyway.  Perhaps it was the influence of their urban peers at the boarding schools and colleges.


All of the above is speculation...

EDIT: and could be undermined if it's true that the trunk shows from places like Brooks provided sufficient enough competition to the brick and mortar local stores to really infiltrate the "purist" look into the smaller cities.

Last edited by Coolidge (2007-11-01 19:02:20)

^ I really like the girl in front, on the right, with stocking feet bent backwards.
She looks like she likes fun and boys who like girls who like fun.

TV

... I wonder how important the 'Historic' test is when you are considering a living, breathing style of dress which has always been changing and emphasising different elements throughout it's long history... Sometimes a touch of the Row, sometimes a touch of Rome, depending on what was in fashion at the time... and then there were the MTM or bespoke wearers of this style who's personal whims were added to the mix beyond what was available from the RTW sources...

Lapels and trousers have been so many different widths over time, just to pick a random 'for instance'...

I can see the validity of the 'historic' test if you are seeking to recreate the note perfect look of 1957 in 2007. But then again to do that would be to indulge in an exercise in pure costume. Fedora-esque style.

The Andover Shop (like Mr. FNB's mention of Paul Stuart on another thread here) aren't in the costume business, they keep Ivy current for today.

Brooks have moved on so far that they're rarely classic American at all these days, choosing to serve up a menu of Euro classics with a hint of an  American flavour instead.

Press are moving on too - That's why the costume crowd howl at them every so often.

O'Connells offerings look like Press from the 80's/90's. Again this isn't the Ivy style of the 50's which was different again in all those little details that count...


So what are we doing when we talk about history & tradition so much in connection with Ivy League style?
Why do we pick the 1940's cut of Khakis as being 'Trad', but look to the 50's/60's for tie and lapel widths?
Why aren't the 60's slimmer cut, un-cuffed Khakis 'Trad'?
'Natural shoulders' have also fluctuated over time regarding how padded/unpadded they are...

It's all so random.

As Tony V. says, classic American style and even that part of it which is Ivy League style is a much broader canvas than you might think.
Maybe it's almost too big for some people to get their heads around and that's why we see it reduced to a check list of 'rules'?

Ahhhhh - Life in the 'cartoon' years!

j.

`Coast to Coast Wardrobe Guide` (1962!)-`A survey of what college men are wearing in every section.`

Hi everyone.I happened to chance on this 2 page spread some time ago .(I was googling `boatneck shetlands` at the time...).
It comes from `The Tech`.`The Tech` is published by the students of the Massachusetts  Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and is the MIT`s oldest and largest newspaper.
This 2 page spread comes from 1962.`The Tech` has lots of great Ivy style clothing advertisements and articles about jazz and student life through the late fifties and early sixties.I`ve saved this particular survey and may other articles from the tech as pdf files.I just wanted to share it in the hope it may be of interest if anyone else hadn`t seen it

http://www-tech.mit.edu/archives/VOL_082/TECH_V082_S0206_P002.pdf

http://www-tech.mit.edu/archives/VOL_082/TECH_V082_S0207_P001.pdf