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#51 2016-05-02 14:07:07

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

Here's some Tory boy racism:

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/05/01/just-when-we-thought-the-tory-race-for-mayor-of-london-couldnt-get-more-racist-it-did/

I thought it was BNP until I saw the Conservative Party in the small print.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#52 2016-05-02 15:12:58

chatsworth osborne jr.
Member
Posts: 738

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

Are they going to claim that "Britain First" is anti-semitic?  The ADL did that over here when Trump used the "America First" line.  Apparently they were upset that any nation dare put their own interests above those of the Jewish State. 
http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/anti-semitism-usa/adl-urges-donald-trump-to-reconsider-america-first.html

 

#53 2016-05-03 02:30:56

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4210

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

".... once Israel began to lose Western public opinion, it had one strategy: change the subject. If it talked about human rights, it couldn’t win. It’s not going to win on human rights, it’s not going to win on the occupation. So, whenever you talk about human rights, Israel wants to talk about anti-Semitism. Whenever you talk about the occupation, it wants to talk about double standards—What about Darfur, What about Syria? Keep changing the subject. That’s its strategy. Now with BDS, it’s been really brilliant. You have to give credit where credit is due. Nobody talks about the blockade of Gaza anymore, it’s all about BDS: Is BDS anti-Semitic? Does BDS want to destroy Israel? It gets to play the victim card again."

Norman Finkelstein


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#54 2016-05-03 02:50:22

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

A bit of whataboutary going on up there.

It's interesting, outside of the new Labour activists, everyone I speak to is aghast at the thought of Corbyn being PM. Where does the truth lie? We shall soon find out later this week.

Meanwhile, overnight news of 50 suspended Labour party members, some from those northern wards where the grooming was going on. Right on brother, focusing on the real issues that effect the day to day lives of the people. As your daughters are getting their tongues hammered to tables and past around the gangs as meat and slaves. That's the dilemma and hypocrisy of the new Left. They don't give a rats ass about the traditional working or underclass. Indeed, you're just an embarrassment to them now they have true revolutionaries and more lofty versions of aged old bigotry to play with.

The resistance is growing by the way, everywhere.....


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#55 2016-05-03 03:32:17

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

And Corbyn is an Arsenal supporter!

 

#56 2016-05-03 04:56:19

chatsworth osborne jr.
Member
Posts: 738

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

 

#57 2016-05-03 06:02:44

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4210

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

Israelis are not too keen now on schwarzes.

Even Ethiopian Jews are not as welcome as when they first arrived.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#58 2016-05-04 03:27:45

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

But can you not see? This is why the Left has failed and been given up on: they focus on niche protest issues and have no position on existential threats, other than they are revolutionary movements therefore we like and share ideology with. The hard Left should look at the history of an Iran in the run-up and aftermath of the revolution. The communist and socialist revolutionaries were major players in the overthrow of the Shah, then they were snuffed out by the ayatollah. That's the future that awaits them!

They are debating whether Israel has a right to exist, whether hating Israelis is anti-semitic or not, whether Bradford should be jewish free or not, whether individual jewish shopkeepers and students should be shunned under Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, whilst the rest of us look on thinking what planet are these people on?

The threats to the traditional Labour voters are not coming from Israel.

The hypocrisy of the Left now knows no bounds and that's why myself and many others have given up on them.

It's like the mask of sanity has been lifted off them and we stare into the abyss of madness!


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#59 2016-05-05 04:54:46

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4210

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

Not sure if you mean Labour when you say the Left.

If so, Labour is divided between Blairite and Corbynite. Corbynite have a platform that includes far more than Israel and has not changed too much over the years either. Blairite tends to go with the flow - more chancers and opportunists.

Antisemitism is just a useful diversionary tactic from their opponents. Nothing else.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#60 2016-05-05 05:23:18

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

It's no accident that this row has blown up just before the local elections.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#61 2016-05-05 09:27:55

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

Welcome to the Darkside..have you any insight into this being in the industry Hep?
http://yournewswire.com/cheney-rothschild-murdoch-to-drill-for-oil-in-syria/

 

#62 2016-05-05 09:41:07

4F Hepcat
THE Cat
Posts: 14333

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

And you excuse me of hyperbole! Sensationalist dribble, but in keeping with Labour's bête noire.


Vibe-Rations in Spectra-Sonic-Sound

 

#63 2016-05-05 10:09:06

Hard Bop Hank
Ivy Soul Brother
From: land of a 1000 dances
Posts: 4923

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

Last edited by Hard Bop Hank (2016-05-05 14:08:17)


“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"

 

#64 2016-05-05 10:11:51

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

 

#65 2016-05-05 10:16:40

Hard Bop Hank
Ivy Soul Brother
From: land of a 1000 dances
Posts: 4923

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left


“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"

 

#66 2016-05-05 10:23:29

Bop
Member
Posts: 7661

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

I think basically what needs to happen is it all gets sorted out.. 👍

Any ideology that gives reason for us to slaughter each other really isnt the move...or are we going to carry on like primates till we destroy ourselves

Last edited by Bop (2016-05-05 11:10:52)

 

#67 2016-05-05 10:27:47

Hard Bop Hank
Ivy Soul Brother
From: land of a 1000 dances
Posts: 4923

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left


“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"

 

#68 2016-05-05 10:57:39

chatsworth osborne jr.
Member
Posts: 738

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

 

#69 2016-05-05 11:50:04

Hard Bop Hank
Ivy Soul Brother
From: land of a 1000 dances
Posts: 4923

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left


“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"

 

#70 2016-05-05 11:55:22

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4210

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

HBH is back

Anti Zionism is not racism. Below is a simple explanation, in very few words, lifted from socialist worker.

(Bribing countries and buying influence is no justification for taking other people's land. Even when those who were bribed keep quiet about it.)


Zionism is based on the idea that Jewish people cannot live peacefully alongside non-Jews.

Zionists see antisemitism as inevitable and argue that the only answer is the setting up of an exclusively Jewish state. This led to migration to Palestine and ethnic cleansing after the Second World War.

For Palestinians, this has meant brutal racist oppression since Israel was set up in 1948 in alliance with western imperialism.

Israeli settlers forcibly displaced hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, forcing them into refugee camps where many remain.

This brutal process—and denying Palestinians the “right to return”—is justified by Zionism.

Those Palestinians who’ve managed to remain live under occupation or siege in East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza. Israeli settlers continue to build settlements in the West Bank.

Israeli society has racism at its heart. Opposing Israel and its underlying Zionist ideology is not antisemitic, but anti-racist.

Should Israel have the right to exist?
The “two state solution”, with Israeli and Palestinian states existing side by side, is no solution.

It would do nothing to address the huge imbalance of power that exists between Israel and Palestine.

Israel would continue to oppress Palestinians because it would see a Palestinian state as a threat.

It would win support from the US and Western powers, which back Israel for their own imperialist interests.

Israel’s incursions into Palestinian territory make a two state solution unfeasible. And such a “solution” would not give Palestinians the right of return.

Israel faces a problem as a settler society—what to do with the people it has dispossessed?

The only real solution is to allow Palestinians the right to return and for Jews and Arabs to live together in a democratic, secular state.

The socialist and internationalist case for the liberation of Palestine is not one in which Jewish people are expelled, but one where they live alongside free Palestinians.

Naz Shah’s tweets about “moving Israel to the US” wrongly suggested Jews would be driven out or forcibly removed.

Palestinian liberation can only be achieved as part of a broader fight for liberation against imperialism.

The granny in the defamation film is right. She would look to live alongside Palestinians not steal their land
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FDxQgTDsf0

Ben Gurion, on the other hand, was of the opinion that the solution was to expel all the Palestinians.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#71 2016-05-05 11:58:11

Hard Bop Hank
Ivy Soul Brother
From: land of a 1000 dances
Posts: 4923

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left


“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"

 

#72 2016-05-05 12:15:54

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4210

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

As has been stated before, all this 'anti semitism', 'racism' stuff is just a distraction from the main issue  - when zionists think they are under too much scrutiny, or people say things they do not like.

Classic hasbara tactic.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#73 2016-05-05 12:17:14

Hard Bop Hank
Ivy Soul Brother
From: land of a 1000 dances
Posts: 4923

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

This is the situation of Ethiopian Jews in Israel:


>>Right now, sure, there is racism in Israel. There are issues of police brutality. There is extreme poverty in Ethiopian-Israeli communities. Ethiopian religious leaders have yet to be recognized as legitimate rabbis by the state. And then there is the issue of non-Jewish African refugees who some Israelis want deported, resulting in violent attacks and racist slurs directed at refugees and Jewish Ethiopians alike.

But ask the average Ethiopian why they are protesting in the Jewish state and the usual answer you will get is that they don’t want Israel to turn into America.

Get that?

They don’t want it to turn into America. In the experience of people like my boyfriend, Israel is nowhere near that level today. And Ethiopian-Israelis want to keep it that way, ensuring their country does not adopt any of America’s attitudes or systemic policies regarding race.

As my boyfriend once darkly pointed out, “At least in Israel if the police beat you, they will not kill you.”

That may seem like a low bar, but in today’s American society it would be a blessing if death-by-arrest were not a depressingly common outcome. Our situation as blacks in America is so dire that we aren’t protesting police brutality–as is the case in Israel–we are protesting the deaths resulting from police brutality. That is a shame. And it makes me ashamed to be an American.

It’s over a month later, and my boyfriend’s brother still does not drive anywhere alone.


http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/193227/whats-the-difference-between-being-black-in-israel-and-america

The Israeli government is concerned about these problems, and there's both a lively debate in a civil society as well as separation of powers that ensures civil liberties for all its citizens.

As for the "No blood for oil" slogan, didn't I post that piece by Mitch Cohen on that topic?

I'll get back to the other stuff on Zionism....


“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"

 

#74 2016-05-05 12:51:16

Hard Bop Hank
Ivy Soul Brother
From: land of a 1000 dances
Posts: 4923

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left


“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"

 

#75 2016-05-05 12:54:50

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4210

Re: Why I've finally given up on the left

I think Dufrais would make a good hasbara man :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReJgCZ0DGnY

Tenacious.

Terry Tibbs could do a good job too..


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

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