My DVD with free lapel badge arrived yesterday but I won't get time to watch it for over a week as off to Japan for work.  (I'll report back from there).

I'm looking forward to viewing but if I'm honest, my expectations aren't that high.  The DVD is 55 minutes in total with no extras, so it's just the documentary.  If it's consistent with others from the same team, it will be well intentioned but superficial. The one about Peter Blake from the same team was for me abysmal, when I asked they confirmed it was really about Sky Arts wanting a programme on album covers, the Peter Blake aspect was barely explained and non of his work outside album covers even mentioned.  It did its job, but it wasn't what it declared.

In the same way, I suspect this is as much as feature about 'Mod' and London as it is John himself.  It doesn't need loads of talking heads - but we know what they are. Far more powerful than music stars would be punters through the years sat talking with John.  I'd love it to be packed with clothing, John talking them through - but it won't be.  The cutting room floor video would be excellent to see for us here.   

I'm delighted it is made, I know the team made it with genuine dedication. I look forward to watching but do so with a little trepidation.

More soon....

http://putthison.com/post/173105671013/talking-to-jason-jules-about-john-simons-patron/amp?__twitter_impression=true

A good read.

Any reports from the cinema showing? 

From the pics on Twitter there was not much actual Ivy on display by the wearers there, seems to be mostly just generic Mod wear that may be coincidentally Ivy in part. That may be just those on the pics though.  I'm back at home after travels and feel the film is becoming hyped online at twitter and beyond with JS now risking being the new Carnaby St Mod tourist trail.  It's rather put me off going in or bothering to watch the DVD. 

There are already pics outside of no doubt first time visitor groups on their pilgrimage. Good for them but it codifies JS in a way that may be hard to leave behind.  This may be good for sales but JS was always careful not to be a Mod menswear shop and I fear that's what it is becoming through this. I'll watch the DVD when it calms down a bit and give the shop a swerve for a month or two. That's a shame though. It's feeling a bit like middle aged subcultural dress up now which I am trying to avoid for myself.  Part of why I like Ivy wear is that it carries subtly through ageing in a suitable way, not defined by youth.

Seeing the usual featured suspects together in photos from the night they just don't look smart or Ivy enough, at least MF usually makes an effort.  The best appreciation of JS would of been to wear some of his great clothing in a well put together way and show how great the proper Ivy look is (not just a harrington or BD).

As I say the DVD sits unwatched and the lapel badge forever unworn (lapel badge, how very '79 revival).  I know I am speaking outside the current received wisdom doing the rounds.  Perhaps these thoughts are more about the furore around the film, than its content.

Interested in thoughts by anyone here who went. I'm surprised  nobody has posted so far.

Last edited by An Unseen Scene (2018-04-30 02:41:46)

I don't have any skin in the game here but from what I understand of these last comments I think you can both be right... I certainly understand the feeling of something unique slipping away through exposure to the "wrong" people... Living in Maine, I've known many the small lobster shack written up in the New York Times, images of tourists from New Jersey swarming the place for seasons to come...

However, if the shop really is what it is, it will weather the increased publicity... There can be a cutting off your nose to spite your face aspect to all this... None of us wants our special things to become "for the masses" but they are our special things and on another level it makes no sense to complain that now others are appreciating them (even if it's for the "wrong" reasons) and giving them money to keep doing what we liked so much to begin with...

And if they don't weather the publicity, by changing and losing the longterm customers or whatever it may be, that says something about them, I suppose, not the new customers... But I think at this stage a shop like JS should have a pretty strong sense of self-image... A glut of customers means they won't have to go begging to stay in business - and THAT, rather than popularity, is what usually causes a dilution of the brand, in my experience.

Doesn't seem like Unseen is dismissing JS, in fact it seems to be fear that others will not fully appreciate it, that makes sense to me, it's a reasonable fear, especially if the publicity only talks up one angle of a multifaceted business... Like if you love a restaurant that serves great burgers, cold cuts, pasta, wings, and milkshakes, but a prominent review only focuses on the burgers - worrying that the rest of the menu will fall by the wayside is reasonable. But hopefully that worry is proved to be unfounded in this case... and maybe giving JS more credit that they'll not abandon what you like about them would alleviate some of that anxiety?

tl;dr I think some anxiety about the effects of the documentary makes sense, but having faith in the strength of the brand to weather it doesn't seem crazy either...

I think, perhaps, what Unseen is saying is that Ivy is the last aspect of Mod that hasn't had the arse ripped out of it. Its the last and only part of the mod look that can still be worn that has an element of understated and cool about it. Making films with artists that appeal to the more comedy side of Mod kinda opens the door to this British modernist side of an Ivy look worn badly by the same people that wear all the other elements of a Mod look badly, thus it really just ending up playing dress up. Once that happens its hard to retain your individuality within your tribe without feeling part of a herd, no matter how much better your look may be. Its hard to explain to those outside of the "scene" (and indeed those inside but that don't really get the ethos of it) and I'm sure people outside can't relate to such a resentment of intrusion.

I've kinda of gone the modern Italian root with nods to elements of Ivy still to move away from the clones and clowns. I think both Unseen and I are very much the same with our interest in Modernist culture and the Brit Mod ethos. I'm not sure that these half hearted attemps by the large "returner" Mods (and it is massive at the minute) are likely to dive into an Ivy look. I think they're just middle aged people whose kids have left home and have paid off their debts that want to go back to a period of their lives when they were just enjoying theirself. Their clothes are stagnant to those times, mainly badly made and not a good fit purchased either on the high street or some god awful site selling shite called Mod something. A refection of a lack of any real interest in clobber beyond lip service.

Last edited by Goodyear welt (2018-04-30 01:32:42)

Goodyear Welt has my feelings precisely.  Berkley_Breathes captures some of my thoughts too.  I'm supportive of JS and am involved in promoting them online continually on social media. 


In the way that GWY says, it's similar to when loads of people turn up to Northern Soul nights in sewn on badges, bowling shoes etc all of a sudden and only want to dance to the few classic oldies they knew.   


It's a nice bubble of enthusiasm for JS at present that over time will find its level.   This being a discussion forum, we are all entitled here to have a perspective on it based on our experience.  Mine as someone trying to continue the modernist ethos through all my life not just clothes, is that the film is well intentioned but also creates a fad.  A fad does'n't have to be a problem, it's nice to see the coverage though it is almost exclusively around the subculture aspect.

I've done a lot of support to the film via Twitter and other sites - I've had John thank me a few times (or whoever does his Twitter).  This will continue.

As I would of thought was evident from my post, I wasn't attacking JS shop, Paul, John or the team making the documentary. This is meant to be a discussion forum, discussion requires a diversity of perspective and input.  As was said astutely, my sense is that the Ivy aspect is perhaps being diluted to just a few items and perhaps undersells Ivy style in its broader sense.  But of course it's important to remember the film is about the man rather than the style.

I'll go and take a watch of the DVD.


Let's try to stay respectful to each other.  Posts at the forum show a tiny slither of a person, let's not try to judge each other by posts here.  Just because I may post about RL, Gant etc doesn't mean I don't have other aspects. Sometimes I'm just posting up what I see to create some discussion at the group.

Last edited by An Unseen Scene (2018-04-30 03:35:30)

In reply to An Unseen Scene: I was there on Friday and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a very lively crowd (considering the advancing ages of many of us), great fun and I'd guess the cinema has never sold as much alcohol in a single night with the bar being packed from 6.30-10.45pm. I thought the film was a fitting tribute to the man, packed with humour, pathos, a bunch of style, great music and was received with laughter and nods of improvement throughout and a huge round of applause at the end. As much as I'd love a 3-hour film with just John chatting a) it would never get made/get the finance and b) it would sell a lot less copies. As has been said - just nip into the shop and have a good chat with John. I always do. If Paul Weller praising John to the hilt sells another 500 copies then good on it. If it sends "mods" to his shop then good on it. John and Paul have a business to run in very trying times in retail. The piece in Arena Pour Homme all those years ago had John saying something like' "At the end of the day we are in Covent Garden and have to get people through the door." For as much as it is a "destination store" you only have to be in the shop for an hour or so to see there is plenty of footfall from people passing. Even so, what's wrong if it is a "destination store"? There are hardly any about anymore. I'm in the NW of England and we have one independent store that is worth a jot. That's Oi Polloi - and I've patronised this on and off since it opened in 2002. I've patronised John's on and off since around 1982. Nowadays I probably buy 60% of my clothes from there but I wouldn't class myself as an Ivy Head, mod or whatever. I just like decent clothes that (sort of) suit my 60-year-old self. I reckon that would probably have described a lot of the crowd on Friday night. Yes there were some mods there (and some very smart ones), there were more suedehead types to my eye, there were lads and lasses in workwear, lots of old friends of John, those just interested in menswear, more Keydge in one room that has probably ever been witnessed with others coming from the casual scene - and all making their own individual nod to John Simons style. If you believe John is an unsung hero of British Menswear - which many of us do - then just enjoy the film and let him, Paul and all involved enjoy their moment. I'm not sure why you think the "scene" or whatever will be watered down by generic mods getting into it all. That - in my view - won't happen. I mean John's currently selling pumps for £140 and Paraboot for £300! While it's not the dearest shop in the world - it isn't cheap and that will deter many. And speaking of those pumps I think it's great that the shop now sells these along with high quality Japanese denim alongside vintage Burberry, own-brand shirts etc etc. The Japanese denim is not for me but it's all about moving on and the next generation coming through. With Paul taking a bigger role then the shop will undoubtedly change and it has to. It is after all about modernism. The future's bright - the future's John Simons.

Last edited by AndyV (2018-04-30 03:49:48)

I'm still in London regularly and I see very few men in the street whose dress stands out recognisably as being Ivy. If I do see someone like that it's almost something to go home and tell my wife about. There's certainly no scene attached to Ivy that I've ever been aware of. Noted more often are the Mod re-enactors GYW is referring to, they are pursuing an interest and aren't harming anyone, but they do look a bit ridiculous. You do encounter a few of them in John Simons.

However the average John Simons returning customer is an older man who appreciates a natural shoulder jacket, a good collar roll and the right sort of loafers. But having a few more bob these days, he looks for better quality/individuality than you find in more mainstream retailers. Some would once have self identified as mods, some not. Very few are into trawling the internet for clothes information or scouring eBay for old Sero shirts like some of us are.  A few are die hard loyalists who have bought their clothes exclusively from John since their teens, but most probably use various sources in addition to JS.

I always enjoy a visit to the shop, the window display is a feast for the eyes and, once inside, the chat and the ambiance are exceptional. Jason Jules said, in the article that Unseen posted, words to the the effect, "I might not personally like everything on sale, but I have never seen anything in there that looked 'wrong' to me". I would agree with that ... apart from those Paraboot Michaels shoes with the fur on them - what were they thinking of there?  My only reason for avoiding the shop would be if I was trying not spend any money, because I often seem to leave there with something I hadn't realised that I 'needed'.