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#1 2021-09-16 02:21:01

A Fine Sadness
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Posts: 3009

James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Can anyone stomach it nowadays, aside from 'Dr.No'?  Fleming was, without doubt, a snobbish horror but in the 50s 'Casino Royale' would have been devoured by the would-be jet-setter, no?  Last year, though, the novels (and short stories) made me feel queasy - and I'd long since abjured Connery in the adaptations.  No single actor seems to me to have pulled off that Hoagy Carmichael look and vibe that Bond apparently had in the early novels.  Daniel Craig?  No - and no again.

 

#2 2021-10-01 12:18:37

A Fine Sadness
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Posts: 3009

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

I have no intention of shelling out good money for this latest offering.  Have you?  'Woke', is it?  Fleming - like Elizabeth David and Kingsley Amis - was kicking against the pricks back in the early fifties.  Fleming knew foreign travel and gourmet food was alluring to a recently-come-off-ration reader.  Elizabeth David - a woman who did a good deal to change my life - knew that a good deal of the ingredients she talked about were unobtainable except in places like Soho.  They were feeding fantasies.  Now...  what's next?  A black female Bond?  Ask Keir Starmer his opinion.  Lazenby did Bond best: cradling Rigg in his arms: unforgettable moment.  And that syrupy song...

 

#3 2021-10-01 13:55:38

Yuca
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Posts: 8568

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

If Bond had the same attitude to women and ethnic minorities as he'd had in the early days then they would have to get Jim Davidson to play the role. Updating those attitudes is not being woke, it's just common sense, from a moral and commercial perspective.

I've not seen any of the films for many years but recently I saw Casino Royale and Dr No paperbacks going cheap and I couldn't resist. The plots have massive holes in them but still, they are highly readable and of course, they offer a glimpse into a fantasy world that must have been an incredible contrast to grey, post-war Britain.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#4 2021-10-01 14:42:12

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

As Yuca says, a Bond who is softer and more socially aware when he’s not killing people is inevitable these days and Craig has undoubtedly revitalised the role. I do wish the product placed suits weren’t quite so tight fitting on a man of his age, even if he is as fit as a butcher’s dog.

Since Vauxhall Cross was blown up in Spectre in 2015 the MoD Building has had to do duty in the films as ‘Bond HQ’. There are often 007 anoraks and foreign tourists outside when I leave work. They tend to stare at you and I like to say ‘Yes, I am a spy’ as I walk past, then I hurry off (I’m not one though of course).


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

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#5 2021-10-01 14:51:42

A Fine Sadness
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Posts: 3009

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

All points taken.  The character was always something of a horror.  'From Russia With Love' remains the best novel, after 'Casino Royale'.  Fleming was on top form by then.  The villains, Grant, Klebb and Kronsteen, are wonderful.  Excellent settings, too, in the Crimea and Istanbul.

 

#6 2021-10-01 15:10:33

Uncle Ian
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From: North London
Posts: 224

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

I read the books in the early 60s, and they had a huge impact on me, and no doubt several others of my generation. The cocktails, the Sea Island cotton shirts, the Russian cigarettes - or preferably soft pack Chesterfields, the exotic women - all that stuff seemed unobtainably glamourous to a young teen on a council estate! But they can be quite hard going to re-read, as I found out with a few last year. I've also just seen the last Daniel Craig film...and well, lots of shoot-em-up but little else of any substance really.

 

#7 2021-10-01 16:05:02

woofboxer
Devil's Ivy Advocate
From: The Lost County of Middlesex
Posts: 7959

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

I have to agree that the plot lines don’t have the depth of the early films, but that’s true of many big budget productions now. They are made for a global market, which means they have to be easy to understand. A movie like Back to the Future(1985) was middle of the road family entertainment, but it had a complicated plot and contained much nuance and humor based on the differences between 1960s and 1980s American culture and it required some awareness of those differences. Such a film wouldn’t be made these days as the audience wouldn’t understand it.

It’s hard to follow a film if you’re trying to keep up with what’s going on on Facebook at the same time.


'I'm not that keen on the Average Look .......ever'. 
John Simons

Achievements: banned from the Ivy Style FB Group

 

#8 2021-10-01 17:09:01

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Hollywood was good from the late 1960s to the early 1990s. A hell of a good run, but the days when it produced films worth a watch are long gone. Other countries still produce some decent films. France in particular. Not the majority of what comes out I'm sure, but I have seen some pretty good French movies of a recent vintage. I don't mean the arty stuff - I'm talking crime or comedies.

As for other countries: Argentina and Brazil have their moments. However I can count the number of British films I like on the fingers of one hand, and they're all from back in the day. I rewatched Nuts in May recently: absolute comedy genius.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#9 2021-10-01 17:18:28

Tworussellstreet
Member
Posts: 599

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Dr No still charms. Connery looks great, and it captures Jamaica in its year of independence. It's glamorous and old-fashioned, and all the key elements of the subsequent franchise are all in evidence. From Russia With Love and Goldinger too, but forget the rest. I think Daniel Craig is awful- just a little pumped up oik, with no charm and no style. And his clothes are abysmal, the tight suits and shirts. Like ex-footballers on Match Of The Day who've gone to seed and wear clingy tops to look beefy. Just ugly.

 

#10 2021-10-01 17:22:23

Tworussellstreet
Member
Posts: 599

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Italy, Yuca, Italy - a match for France in the 30 years after the war.  Very little from the Continent is now shown in Anglophone countries. Our culture has got smaller, less curious, less cerebral, and cinema is a much diminished art form. The UK is so introspective and narrow, shunning the other and as a consequence now shunned by them.

 

#11 2021-10-01 18:06:54

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

In terms of climate, food and places to visit: I'll take Italy over France. But when it comes to cinema, then and now: France is well in the lead. True I have seen a few very good Italian films from back in the day, and a few good ones from more recent years. But the French have done a lot more and a lot better. It's no wonder that Ventura only made (I think) a couple of films in Italy, his native country. He knew where the better cinema was being produced.

I rarely go for surreal films but Bianca is an Italian example from 1984 that is quite entertaining and has some very tasteful outfits.

In terms of clothing, France v Italy: maybe a draw.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#12 2021-10-01 18:13:02

Tworussellstreet
Member
Posts: 599

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Bianca is Nanni Moretti - nice choice! Released today, that film would never be screened in the UK.

 

#13 2021-10-03 14:52:32

slimmm67
Member
Posts: 112

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Bring back Jimmy Bond. Woody would probably still be up for appearing in a khaki suit.

 

#14 2021-10-03 15:40:10

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

I think the English cinema rarely produced 'grown-up' movies.  Powell and Pressburger maybe.  The French and Italians knocked spots off us in the 40s and 50s in particular, when we were still reliving wartime glories.  Then we became all arty - Losey etc. - and did that badly, too.  England mistrusts intellectualism: anything in the way of yearning and searching.  Anyone interested should read Corelli Barnett.

 

#15 2021-10-03 17:31:32

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Yes. Although I do love the Long Good Friday.

Shut up you long streak of paralyzed piss - pure poetry when combined with a traditional cockney accent.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#16 2021-10-03 22:52:10

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

'The Mafia? I shit 'em'.
A quote I use to this day, substituting the word Mafia


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#17 2021-10-03 22:55:52

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

I was a member of BFI for a few years and saw a premier of TLGF where the film was discussed on the Southbank.
Bob was a great character. And I loved our Leigh on sea/Westcliff girl Helen Mirren


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#18 2021-10-05 12:18:10

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Went to see the Bond film last night with a group of friends. Missus is a Bond fan. Wasn't as 'woke' as I was expecting but he didn't kop off with any birds. The film is probably 30 minutes too long but it wasn't unbearable. Daniel Craig finally settling into the role, if a little bit too late. The film seemed to be trying to tie up loose ends. Looks like the end of the franchise to me. Not sure where they can go with it from here.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#19 2021-10-05 12:23:40

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Only greed prevented Bond from being killed off years ago.  Fleming grew bored stiff with the character just as Conan Doyle did with Holmes.  The last Bond I saw in the cinema was 'The World Is Not Enough'.  I took my daughter on her birthday.  We watched several Roger Moore outings during lockdown.  Wish I'd got an early night...

 

#20 2021-10-05 12:38:08

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Bond doesn't pull? Maybe he's depressed. I am reading about it.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#21 2021-10-05 12:40:06

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Nor did he pull, dear Yuca, in the novel of 'Moonraker'.  Gala Brand was already spoken for.

 

#22 2021-10-05 12:47:01

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Summing up, I came to dislike Connery very much.  Lazenby I like.  Moore I never took to.  Dalton is local to me, went to the same school as my younger daughter, support the Old Firm etc...  Brosnan made no impression.  Craig I saw less then twenty minutes of in 'Casino Royale' before leaving the room.  Have I missed anyone out?

 

#23 2021-10-05 12:49:24

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Niven?


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#24 2021-10-05 12:52:37

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

Oh...  ah...  Never a big fan anyway...  I've only seen that 'Casino Royale' once and hated it.  Hate a lot of films from that period.  Flabby.  The Beatles have a lot to answer for.

 

#25 2021-10-05 13:09:50

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: James Bond: How The Ultra-Cool Can Fall Off The Side Of A Mountain...

One of the film locations was Matera, southern Italy. We visited there a few years ago and I swear my brother in law (who once fancied himself as a Finnish rally driver) drove down the same streets at the same speed as Bond.
My missus was trying to impress telling everyone that we were there. No one was impressed so then she told everyone that she used to know Albert R Broccoli (true) which just drew blank looks. She came away somewhat deflated.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 
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