I'm not really referring to the smutty magazines perused behind the scenes. In case you were wondering. More anecdotes and images. Always one of my favourite topics on 'Talk Ivy' all those years ago. Who shopped there? How much cash did you spend? On what?
Staxfan, you're very welcome. You might care to pick up on this relatively new thread. Not confined to Richmond of course but anything JS, IS, John Lally et al. were connected with. Hopefully, yes, something to suit all tastes: names, labels, anecdotes etc. Words only for the time being but it's a start.
It's funny isn't it? Jimmy Frost-Mellor is gone, yet his spirit lives on here in these topics, in the spirit of the old place. I hear echoes of him as I read through all this great stuff which A Fine Sadness is putting up. Unless, nah, couldn't be could it?... A Fine Sadness is JFM?... is it an anagram, a code or some sort..? JFM lives on anyhow, in the ongoing spirit of Talk Ivy.
My earliest recollection of the IS was in early '68, I was 15 still at school, a pal who was a year or so older and working had 2 shirts from the IS, I can remember what they were, ( he probably can't !), white with a blue stripe and flap pocket, and a blue ocbd, the shirts were expensive for me but I guess it must have been a couple of months later I bought a Lion of Troy pale yellow h/s, olive green harrington a couple of months later, ( they were still under the radar at this point), and black plaincap royals in December with my Christmas dosh from my M&D, in '69 there were a lot of Career Club shirts in the IS, there were always a wide range of checks, stripes, probably no more than 2-3 in each pattern in each size, I ( we) have since learnt that JS use to buy up dead stock from the previous year in NYC and ship them back to London, the best ones always sold out as soon as they hit the shelves, one Saturday I went back 3 times for a shirt they were holding for someone, finally they let me have it, didn't wear it on the Saturday, saved it for Sunday at the Castle Ballroom ( 2 mins from the IS) , thought I was the business, there were probably no more than 2-3 other shirts in this big summery check in the UK, but the 2-3 other guys who had bought them also wore them that night !, In 1970/71 not all shirts were from the USA, although bd's they came from Ireland, I know this as I worked at Heathrow and my company were arranging the customs clearance ( pre EU) and the delivery to Richmond.... shopped there till it closed, this overlapped with shopping in Russell St, pre-covid made the pilgramage to Chiltern St 1-2 times per year, JS invariably pounced on me when I arrived ( usually as they opened), probably as I was a more 'mature' customer and I often left with something I didn't know I wanted or needed , but it always worked out fine, very fond of my brown Keydge cord jacket,
Great recollections. It's made me think that West London boys were ahead of us East London/Essex by at least a year in the fashion.. (I used to think it was 6 months) The first real Harrington I saw was a brown one (always quite rare) on a Chelsea boy. He couldn't believe we were still wearing monkey jackets. He told us where to buy one and I got one from the Squire shop in green. All my mates bought different colours. No one else in our manor had them. Not long after knock off versions were being sold in Romford market.
Love it that JS pounced on you when you went in his shop. He used to do that to me at the Covent garden shop.
Interesting that you mention shirts made in Ireland. Ben Sherman I believe had 5 factories making their shirts but I think that might have been Northern Ireland. Funny that I turned my back on good quality BS shirts in favour of American shirts that were sometimes inferior. Those American short sleeved check shirts were great though.
Were Towncraft around then, Robbie?
Looking at the conversations passing between the two of you, I can't help wondering if this phase was very much confined to quite specific parts of London. I do wonder, too, what might have been happening in Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool etc. Maybe the same as around me, where some of the old mods had stuck with shortish hair and smart clothing but others had gone over to a kind of loose, hippy style. Any other Londoners care to comment? Any older provincials?
Don't remember Towncraft.
London wasn't just East and West. North London had a good Ivy style shop opposite the Tottenham Royal in the Tottenham high road and South London could get up to Charing Cross on the railway pretty quickly.
Fashion ideas were spread quickly in Dancehalls and on the London football terraces I think.
Robbie: the old (and new) Shermans I have seen all have an English look that I consider inferior even to the cheaper US BDs of the time, pretty much all of which were soft collar I believe. So I think you made the right decision.
Re. ivy in the UK outside London: I can't recall any reminiscences on here or elsewhere about ivy having any presence back then outside London and Greater London. There were probably individuals around the country wearing it from the 1960s onwards, but not enough to warrant a shop selling it outside the capital. Or at least that I've ever heard of.
Also I think the old Shermans were all cotton/poly blends, with more of the latter than the former. They did do some nice stripes and checks though.
My original BS shirts were all cotton and with a proper collar roll. The Brutus shirts which I didn't buy were cotton/poly blends I think. I bought some old/new stock BS shirts (that a backstreet retailer had picked up cheaply as bankrupt stock) in the early 80s and they were pukka. No one now believes me how good they were.
Fair enough. I had a few vintage (60s I think) Shermans years ago, all poly cotton, all with the closed pleat and all with a collar that sort of rolled, but not in the classic fashion.
The closed pleat ones maybe were different. I can't really remember now. My first BS was closed pleat but after that they were open. Funnily enough my first open pleat shirt I bought I remember when I got it home I thought was snide. I was only 15 so didn't know anything.
I had maybe 4-5 BS shirts in ‘68 all stripes, to my recollection they were all cotton, full roll as RobB said, open box pleat in the back,later they had the pleats sewn in and darts, the checks , which I can’t recall seeing before ‘69, were awful, not for me, but some of those Career club 1/2 sleeves were poly/cotton, wasn’t too bothered about that as long as they were ‘Made in the USA’
RobbieB - by the sound of things us in the ‘West’ were ahead of you in the ‘East’, I guess the irony here is that JS was an Eastender but opened his first meaningful shop in Richmond, SW London, oh it could have been so different,hehe !
Definitely agree with you here Staxfan - I had a couple of Ben Sherman's in about '66, all cotton, lovely stripes, soft collar roll etc. But then I saw a mate of mine wearing an American shirt he'd bought in the Squire Shop in King's Road, realised they were the real deal, and never looked back. Then of course the Sherman's became adopted by young kids, with the sewn-in pleats, poly/cotton fabric etc., so we let them get on with it!