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#51 2021-12-12 10:25:24

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Let me get this straight:

Your ancestors were miners and dockworkers, and Weller aged 19 claimed he was going to vote Tory (soon afterwards he admitted it had been a joke). Conclusion: Weller has no right to criticise the Conservative destruction of the UK.

Someone you knew who criticised Murdoch ended up working for him, therefore all criticisms of Murdoch have no substance.

I've never read such foolishness in all my life. I'm actually embarrassed for you. And you say I'm talking out of my arse?


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#52 2021-12-12 10:37:11

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 900

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

It' s interesting how the political spectrum can be viewed by your location.
I think a lot of people in the Home Counties have a different view than in the Midlands and North.
I grew up in a very Union centric city. Some of you may recall Red Robbo. The academic year that left school before me, at 15/16, had a number of kids who had beed destined to get jobs at BL, Lucas, Jaguar because there fathers were there  - not because of any merit.
As a Brummie you were probably destined to be cannon-fodder in a factory - working class on the line/middle class in the offices.
Unions called the shots throughout the area.
Thank god there was a political revolution for people like me in the eighties. We didn't have to do what our elder siblings were forced to do. Our destinies were in our own hands. More importantly that didn't entail moving to London.
Yes, Thatcherism closed down a load of industries that weren't viable without the public purse. Yes, the miners were treated very badly by the police but and it's big but there were more opportunities for working class people like me.
I know a lot of my contemporaries who have been successful because we were able to break through the regional glass ceiling.
I get sick to death hearing from Islington socialists drinking Earl Grey and eating Waitrose sandwiches about how awful it all was.

 

#53 2021-12-12 11:01:42

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Thatcherism was pure short term thinking. Keep enough people happy to stay in power and hope that by the time it all goes to shit the public don't know or care why it's gone to shit. (Which to be fair has worked.) Deregulating the housing market; selling off the utilities; reducing investment in public services; there's no such thing as society; etc etc. The present situation was an obvious inevitable result. Most UK posters on here are old enough to have done well out of Thatcherism. Whilst the rest of the country has gone to shit.

By the way I don't even have the money to visit Islington let alone live there, and I make my own sandwiches. And I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years first hand.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#54 2021-12-12 11:06:47

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

'As a Brummie you were probably destined to be cannon-fodder in a factory - working class on the line/middle class in the offices.
Unions called the shots throughout the area.
Thank god there was a political revolution for people like me in the eighties. We didn't have to do what our elder siblings were forced to do.'

Those jobs you disparage had security, regular hours and enabled people who spent their whole lives working to be able to buy a home. Not ideal by any means, in fact definitely lots of room for improvement - but utopia compared to the situation now.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#55 2021-12-12 11:10:40

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Anyway, to return to those utopian jumpers...  oh, and Thomas More...

 

#56 2021-12-12 11:20:32

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 900

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

No Yuca. I'm far from disparaging anyone who took a factory job. I appreciate you don't me.
My point is that you were destined for something that you might not have wanted.There was a massive glass ceiling. There wasn't much room for improvement. Yes, the hours were regular and so was the monotony. Try packing car headlights into boxes for seven hours a day.
I visited plenty of factories in the early eighties and if you think they were nice places to be you're mistaken

 

#57 2021-12-12 11:23:45

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

I took a factory job.  Sticking labels onto jars of pickled onions.  It was much more fun than teaching A-Level History. 

Not.

 

#58 2021-12-12 11:34:56

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

I've done plenty of shit factory jobs. I wouldn't recommend it. Back then such jobs came with security, hours that began and ended at set times, and a wage that enabled the worker to be able to buy a home. In fact a lot of workers were able to support a family just on one wage. We still have numerous shit jobs nowadays, but someone doing one can't even afford to rent a house for their family let alone buy one; often has no job security and may be let go at any moment, without notice or compensation; their hours can vary dramatically from week to week; and their working conditions are actually worse than those in 1980s factories.

A few generations doing very well out of rising house prices is no compensation.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#59 2021-12-12 11:35:13

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

^ That glass ceiling was in place all right.  No doubt about that.  I had an interview - not on a friendly basis - with my housemaster.  He was outraged that I wanted to study History, Politics and Economics instead of woodwork and metalwork.  He told me outright I was factory fodder.  This would be in 1974.  I politely told him to stick it.  I've been politely telling people to stick it ever since. 
One of my proudest achievements was getting a shy underachiever into Cambridge, another seeing a dyslexic girl achieve 100% in both her A-Level papers.  Yet another was making the arrangements for a three year old child become bilingual in French.  Some said it couldn't be done.  I did it.

 

#60 2021-12-12 11:38:56

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

What Yuca says in his last posting has much truth in it.  I find nothing much to disagree with there.  In fact, I marvel at how fortunate my elder daughter has been in buying a big house with an acre of land.  Mind you, she has been hard at work since she began a paper round at thirteen.  But this country probably does have too many non-jobs, too great a reliance on service industries, is too complacent by half.

 

#61 2021-12-12 11:40:34

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

As for education: that's been well and truly fucked by neoliberalism i.e. treating a school like a burger franchise. Back in the day teaching was a career for life. Nowadays few people can stay in the profession long term. I certainly couldn't.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#62 2021-12-12 11:42:35

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

'One of my proudest achievements was getting a shy underachiever into Cambridge, another seeing a dyslexic girl achieve 100% in both her A-Level papers.'

Maybe she just misread her results?


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#63 2021-12-12 11:46:27

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

'That glass ceiling was in place all right.'

Definitely. But social mobility has actually got worse. Inevitably. Young people need to have a rich family to be able to enter creative professions such as the media, music etc etc. Back in the day one certainly did not need to have a rich family to be a journalist or rock musician.


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#64 2021-12-12 11:48:07

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

And your solution is?

 

#65 2021-12-12 11:55:03

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 900

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

I have never had a job with security. I have never had fixed hours. My life has been full of uncertainty. I am exceptionally badly educated as my school years were the equivalent of being sent to an open-prison.

I have been incredibly lucky to live in Birmingham though and that has provided me with a wealth of opportunities.

 

#66 2021-12-12 11:57:15

Yuca
Member
Posts: 8568

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

'And your solution is?'

Social democracy. Accept that neoliberalism has been a disaster and eradicate it from our shores.

A few years ago I went to visit a couple of friends in Sweden. They lived near the centre of Stockholm in a very modern, warm, safe 2 bedroom flat. When I realised their rent was less than what I was paying for my old, cold 1 bedroom flat in Leicester, I knew I had to leave the UK.

Last edited by Yuca (2021-12-12 12:12:27)


some sort of banal legitimacy

 

#67 2021-12-12 11:58:01

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

^ An underrated city.  When you're in Birmingham, you know you're in a city, unlike in Derby, which kids itself it's a city.  I used to enjoy attending examiners meetings at Aston University.  Dad used to buy a lot of jazz at - The Diskery, is that right?  Easy journey between Derby and Brum by train.

 

#68 2021-12-12 12:00:32

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Social democracy: how to achieve it?  Something Tony Crosland was puzzling over in the 1950s (or 60s).

 

#69 2021-12-12 12:00:41

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4178

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

It’s all gone a bit ‘Saturday night and Sunday Morning’.

When grammar schools still existed they gave youngsters chances. Teaching was still regarded - rightly - as a vocation and an important one.

As far as London was concerned, there was plenty of work. You might not get into certain places that only wanted public school/Oxbridge types but that was little hardship.

It would be far worse in places heavily dependent on a single employer or industry unless you moved elsewhere.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#70 2021-12-12 12:02:29

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4178

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Tony Crosland was a complete and utter C U Next Tuesday.

Last edited by Kingston1an (2021-12-12 12:02:55)


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#71 2021-12-12 12:07:50

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Agreed.  My brother-in-law is a wealthy man, dividing his time between Calgary and California.  Came from a house that had no bathroom let alone central heating.  Went to grammar school, went to college (never went near a university): work, work, work.  But he'll never return to England.  His grandfather was a Liverpool dock worker, great-grandfather an Irish immigrant from Cork.  The next generation: all professionals: education, law.  But modern education is a racket, really.  Or at least much of it.  Time-servers.  Cynics.  Those who can do, those who can't teach, those who can't teach teach gym.  That sort of thing.

 

#72 2021-12-12 12:08:55

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Crosland?  Yes, indeed.  The grammar-school smasher.

 

#73 2021-12-12 12:15:51

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4178

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Yes modern education is a racket. It’s gone well beyond micromanaging schools and burdening teachers with endless bureaucracy.

Further education is a complete racket that kept youngsters off the unemployment records and provided another industry for educators.

Worthless degrees and £9000 per annum for Zoom tuition might hamper the prospects of this sector. Meanwhile many decent jobs have gone in the ‘race to the bottom’. Good apprenticeships and a regular wage disappear for the ‘gig economy’.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#74 2021-12-12 12:22:21

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

Yep.  My best mate - failed his 11-plus, left school with a single O-Level, never been out of work, now manages a multi-million pound budget.

His son will not be able to do the same.

 

#75 2021-12-12 12:34:33

A Fine Sadness
Member
Posts: 3009

Re: New In At Chiltern Street...

I agree about neoliberalism.  But isn't the EU somewhat that way?  The US?  I don't know, I lose track.  But unless one can persuade people - voters - not to be quite so acquisitive, to co-operate with one another, to share you get stuck in the mud. 
For most of my adult life I've been guided by the kindness of a homeless woman who shared her supper with me.  She had nothing much but shared what she had.
Make of that what you will.

 

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