There is a little bit of a spat going on over on 'DW' just at this moment. A rather irritating picture of John Lennon features.
I used to own an American navy peacoat (and been rather wishing that I still had it - I just can't think of a polite way of asking my daughter's boyfriend to return it) and an army combat jacket (purchased solely because of Master Allen sporting one in 'Annie Hall'). I also recall - albeit vaguely - a deck jacket. But I never did understand the buzz about Rickson and was intrigued as to who paid out big bucks for that flying jacket on offer at Chiltern Street towards the end of last year.
Can we - should we - count khakis and chinos? I guess we should.
Is anyone strongly for or against it on principle?
Oh, I should own up to my aversion to Lennon right here and now. I took the trouble to read several biographies of The Bootles several years back and did not draw many favourable conclusions.
Him and McCartney were good song writers I suppose, but I find their music rather twee and dated. Beatles fans love to talk about how influential they were whereas in reality they marked the end of an era.
'Twee' is a good word. 'Self-indulgent' is a phrase that readily springs to mind.
On the other hand, I rather grew up with them and still adore 'Eleanor Rigby' and any number of other songs.
Lennon, however, was a Grade A horror.
I think they were a bit influential, I remember an interview with Brian Wilson saying he had to up his game after listening to Rubber Soul.
Sure but then didn't The Beach Boys split up before the end of the 60s? I look at the good music from the mid to late 1960s through to the early 80s as a wonderful version of the music - good and mostly bad - that became massive from the mid 80s up to a few years ago. Bands like the Beatles had little to do with that. Although of course crap like Blur and Oasis took a lot from them. I suppose other rockers before and since did too.
I agree that Eleanor Rigby is a good song. Lyrically that's their finest hour.
Still if someone enjoys listening to them I wouldn't want to spoilt their fun.
Talking of The Beach Boys, they were just huge - like The Beatles - around 1965 (?). I was at junior school (of course) but remember 'Good Vibrations' as if it were yesterday. Also 'Reach Out' by The Four Tops. The Monkees were also very big. I still, in spite of jazz and the likes of Robert Johnson, love it all. Country music, too. I've just ordered some West Coast, something by the Memphis Jug Band and a Cajun/Zydeco compilation. Very catholic tastes in music, I.
Would you not say Yuca that the Beatles also possibly paved the way for other Bands to break the US.
Prior to the Beatles having 3 or 4 of the top 5 Billboard singles at one time, I can't think of anyone who had a hit record in the US, I mean Christ even Herman's Hermits had top 10 Billboard hits.
'The English Invasion', coming on top of that what - more or less decade long? - dominance by the Americans: the soundtrack to 'American Graffiti'. Did the invasion last two or three years, before Dylan and those that came after reversed the trend? Plenty of 'cross-pollination'. Was Dylan influenced by The Beatles? They certainly seem to have been influenced by him. But they - The Beatles - took an innocent art form - and turned it into cack, thus paving the way for every other bit that followed (with rare exceptions)...
'Number nine... number nine... number nine...' Dada?
Yuca was talking about 'Little Red Rooster' not so long ago. In fact, the Stones weren't too bad during that period and probably got a few people - like me - to stop listening to their later stuff and start paying attention to Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Robert Johnson etc. I still remember my Dad's casual comment: 'If you're going to listen to black music, why not listen to black people singing it'?
On the subject itself, no-one has said yea or nay.
I watched 'Annie Hall' at the end of last year and failed to be impressed by that particular jacket.
I’ve got a 1970s M65 and a 1950s USN peacoat, they are functional and ever lasting, I love them and both see regular wear. These two garments have been repeatedly copied by the fashion houses and those copies are so ubiquitous on the high street that the styles can no longer really be regarded as militaria. Of course I like to think that the originals trump the copies every time. Why have a Next peacoat when you can have a genuine USN one and feel the corduroy lined pockets every time you put your hands in them? But deck jackets and tank jackets etc have not made that jump across to the mainstream and, for me, have something of the re-enactor about them - so I avoid them. Of course my Luftwaffe uniform only comes out at weekends.
I suppose khakis/chinos are a given. Certainly one of the cornerstones I mentioned on the other thread.
A peacoat I think is a classic. Goes with casual and semi smart just great.
I always fancied an m65 but was put off when I read a long thread about them on another site. Possibly Fedora Lounge? The general consensus was that they’re not as warm as you’d think. I do feel the cold though, and find myself standing around in it a lot, so tend to look for coats and jackets deemed suitable for New York winters.
I did own a few Alpha MA1s (blue mainly. That green/grey once or twice. Absolutely never black). The warmest jacket I ever owned was an Alpha MA2 but I wouldn’t want to wear one now. Even if you went the full McQueen with chinos and db’s you’d come across more like a doorman or skinhead.
I think a lot of people assume military approved clothing is top notch stuff, whereas actually a lot of those guys prefer to spend their own money on better quality where they can. Plus I’ve always lived near and knocked around in Aldershot. For all kinds of reasons over the years, you don’t go round dressed too much like a squadie if you’re not one.
I always fancied an m65 but was put off when I read a long thread about them on another site. Possibly Fedora Lounge? The general consensus was that they’re not as warm as you’d think. I do feel the cold though, and find myself standing around in it a lot, so tend to look for coats and jackets deemed suitable for New York winters.
I might wrong but can't you get winter liners for them.
Yes you can RG. I think I read reviews from tough ex special forces guys claiming they were plenty warm enough with the lining. And fairly soft, clothes obsessed civvies moaning they weren't as warm as they thought they'd be. I know which side of the fence I'm on!
An M65 is toasty warm providing you have the all important liner buttoned in. Several companies make very good copies and there is no need to go to the absurd level of expenditure asked for a Buzz Rickson replica M65. My nephew bought a Helikon M65 with liner from the Military1st website who have a good selection. It cost him less than a hundred quid and there’s not a lot of difference to my genuine US Army one.
^ Mine was £6 in 2009 from an American Ebayer. Very warm indeed.
Have a lovely M51 field jacket in OG107 which I find a wonderful versatile top layer with either chinos or denim. I also have a tan Alpha Industries one I picked up many years ago for on the scooter which isn’t worn very much now. Usually wear a heavyweight sweat or Shetland beneath with a BD and a scarf if needed - don’t have a liner for them.
Today, a lovely 40s Daisy Mae arrived in a herringbone fabric, I have a neat BB one too, make for a nice alternative to a bucket hat or cap - seller put in a vintage wool cap too gratis which I have just hand washed.
It’s hard to dismiss militaria when the chino became such a large part of the look which was adopted when the G.I. Bill was brought in, no reason outer wear shouldn’t feature too imo
I wear what are variously called "bush" or "safari" shirts in the warm months. They are either khaki or olive in color and are definitely military-ish. Especially the ones with epaulets, in case of a field promotion.
But mine get filthy.
^ Yes. I once wore something of that kind: around 1979. Short sleeves, khaki.
I should think the old Mod parka was a warm item. In fact, I know it was as, buying and selling a bit a few years ago, I tried one on and went walkies in it on a cold day. John Simons offered a few, though I can't remember whether they were to be found at Russell Street or Chiltern Street. A pity their associations are now so negative, but some of the more arrogant gentlemen I knew circa 1978-9 wore them and imagined themselves the bees' knees (even if they did ride around in cars or catch the bus home instead of owning a scooter). They're described as 'extreme cold weather', are they not? - and should be reclaimed by practical Ivyists everywhere as part of their look.
I had a lovely parka with button in fur lining. Lovely and warm but dangerous to wear. Especially nice in winter with a girl wrapped inside. Inflamatory even to be seen (ironically Scooter Boys were the worse for trying to do me over constantly).
Parkas are now the wear of school gate mums everywhere.
^ LOL. Yes, you're right - but of the type I had around 1975. The furry hood and everything. Almost always blue. And shiny.
Still got my old mod parka. Complete with rips and tears from many a tumble. Spent a good few nights wrapped up in it at parties or on seaside benches.
Ironically they’re great for anything but riding a scooter in bad weather. Not quite wind or waterproof. Weighed a ton when wet and never dried out. Might have protected your suit from the elements but not you if you fell off. And they all came with their own particular ‘eau de probate’. My wife wont even let it in the house.
As AUS says, they’re now completely reclaimed by school run mum and part time re-enactors.