well ive lost faith in clothes but not the forum, so that must say a lot.

Bop, somehow I come to think you are looking in clothes for something they can't deliver.

But maybe I understood now what you meant originally - prep as an evolution of ivy (= getting it right in the boom years) is now ill-fitting and hence the opposite of what it was. Yes?

I think Bop was looking for something in clothes, he wanted to find out more about clothes and how they should fit, about what cuts suited him and about colourways. I remember Rob as a young upstart who was keen as mustard, there were, I'm sure he won't mind me saying, some major fuck ups along the way but I think now he knows as much as he needs to know about clothes. Working in a nice clothes shop to boot. Its been intense, and now perhaps, he's starting to think less about clothes because there's less to know.

Aye, if you're going to go off the beaten path, you're going to fall down a lot of ravines!

I think now I sell clothes, and fit people all day long, (on average I fit about 10 people a day), and get to work along side a well trained tailor who worked at Tommy Nutter and other West End establishments I can measure people by eye, I have a better insight into clothes, and I suppose how they should work, for want of a better word. So when I see poor fits on these prep chaps or igents, or even us, especially myself, I can comment objectively, now with experience, I might not always be technically correct, but I know how it should look, and I think if others went through what I did they'd get a grasp of it to. I think the repetition of it and seeing different shapes gives you a broad understanding of how to dress people.

I've learnt a lot, I think I'm more interested in dressing other people now than myself, I see the beauty in clothes, for a brief period I was worried although my taste was a million a miles away from designer clothes and trends, my thinking towards them was still the same, ie, the continuos consumption of things to please you short term wants, I've read up a lot about things in the last couple of years, that's taught me a lot about why we all act the way we act, and now i think I'm ready to say, with Ivy and other types of clothing, British, Italian, or where skill has been taken, and a craft is important, I can really admit to loving that as an art and craft, away from all the bullshit that goes with consumerism, and the constant bombardment we suffer everyday of our lives. I know from PM's that have been sent to me a lot of people are on this level, and why they were kind of attracted to the simpleness of Ivy in the first place. Even though it may have been popular and aspirational in its time, it is probably less so now, and enjoyed in a more honest way.

Don't worry Woof, I don't either.