I found some on Ebay in yellow, pink and green. Here is where we see that ivy and preppie are indeed different animals.

Maybe for someone in the US who got into preppie in the 1970s or 80s they appeal. In which case, I hope they at least reserve them for wearing solely whilst on holiday.

Mayor Larry Vaughn in Jaws. 70s Ivy. The decade that did not appreciate subtlety. I've never understood all this nonsense that distinguishes preppy from Ivy. They draw from the same well, were worn by the same people for the same reasons. There just happened to be a 10 year period, roughly 1955 to 1965, when the look went mainstream, but outside of this golden period the clothes were always an indicator of a kind of exclusivity. I'm talking US here. When the look travels it all goes bonkers. The UK, France, Japan etc.. they all do it for different reasons.

I look and almost disbelieve.  But what Gibson says holds water.  The difference between Ivy League and preppie - which does exist in subtle forms (then there's 'generic Americana') - was a Jimmy obsession, a stick with which to beat, well, anyone who disagreed with him.  Now, here's the rub, faced with the aforementioned O'Connell or Fred Perry and bovver boots, which would you choose?  Gun at head time.  As Gibson says, 'bonkers'.  There must be a third way, yes?  That's our look, I suppose: Anglo-Ivy more or less.  O'Connell's do sell Barbour and Gloverall, too.

Ironically (perhaps) a preppy probably would pair those trousers with a Perry. Back in the 70s and 80s Perry was seen in the US purely for what it was: good quality British sportswear. Perfect for vacations.

Yes.  A good many crossings and recrossings of the water perhaps.  There is a thread somewhere, I think, concerning the boss of the Andover Shop scouting bleak northern regions for fabrics.  Horace should speak on this subject again.

Not just the Graham Marsh book thank you very much. J.P.Gaul wrote all the best bits, including the essay on Japanese Ivy.

"I've never understood all this nonsense that distinguishes preppy from Ivy. They draw from the same well, were worn by the same people for the same reasons. There just happened to be a 10 year period, roughly 1955 to 1965, when the look went mainstream, but outside of this golden period the clothes were always an indicator of a kind of exclusivity. I'm talking US here."

This quote gets right to the point. The differences between Ivy and Preppy are purely academic. Except for the period when these clothes were mass-marketed, they have always been part of the lifestyle of a very well-defined socio-economic group, and still are today. Not only in the US, by the way. In the UK, people have a different idea of it because the reference to these clothes was made through subcultures like Mods and Skinheads there. This is a completely different concept where clothing is the focus, which is not the case in the US. I think that's one of the reasons Americans and Brits often get into quarreling on this subject online.

Last edited by Skipper (2021-10-06 01:15:04)

I do wonder what might be said if the word 'preppie' was used to describe the clothing sold by JS over the years.  John might shrug, look away and find something that urgently needs doing, like putting a pair of shoes straight.  Can't think what Paul's reaction might be.  But, when selling a Harrington jacket to some journalist whose wife called it 'beige', John Lally simply smiled.  Or so we read.  (Article in 'The Independent' re the closing of the Ivy Shop).  'Natural', not beige.  I might be wrong but I do still think of a lot of clothing as 'American' rather than one hundred per cent 'Ivy League'.  But, if I see RL, Hollister, Land's End, Orvis I'm not going to start jumping up and down with excitement.  I do not, however, anticipate seeing Brooks, Press, Paul Stuart, Chipp etc. in my nearest 'vintage' shop.  It's more likely to be Penney standard.  I might look it over, but almost certainly won't buy it.  I'll look for something Italian instead.

We've just finished watching 'Jaws'.  Nothing I saw on Murray Hamilton would I choose to wear.