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#1 2022-04-11 10:29:15

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 903

MADRAS MADNESS

It's happening again.

Just when I think I won't buy anymore Madras shirts my will power is put severely to the test.

The latest Press offerings look great but with a rubbish exchange rate, tax and shipping to contend with I appreciate that that these shirts are expensive.

On Saturday at Chiltern Street I was shown photos of four new Madras shirts that will be arriving later in the year and they look superb.

It's funny; a few years ago with the exception of Polo you couldn't get hold of madras for love or money. Now it's more readily available but more expensive than I remember.

Some of the stronger colours remind me of the lovely shirts you would find in the States during the Eighties.

As with all things Ivy do you buy now in the belief that these things won't be around forever or do you pass and wait for the next crop just in case they're better.

 

#2 2022-04-11 11:49:32

Staxfan
Member
Posts: 781

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Alvey - have you tried the madras shirts from The Original Madras Trading  Co ? I bought one last year at sale price, good quality, decent collar roll , probably should have sized up, price point same as JS, worth a look for anyone with ‘ Madras Madness’,

 

#3 2022-04-11 11:55:07

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 903

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Interesting.
I know the name but had written them off thinking there was no collar roll.
Another name to add to the list. Much to ire of Mrs Singer

 

#4 2022-04-11 14:52:37

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 659

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

The answer to this question is simple

You grab what you find, when you see it, in the half crazed belief that:

(a) the goods once sold will never be re-made or re-stocked. Only discussed with reverence by future Ivy fanatics as an example of the pinnacle of ‘the look’. Some of whom will have chanced across a crate of NOS in a disused shop basement and bought the lot for a fiver. Occasionally the item will pop up on Ebay at an eye watering price. You’ll know it isn’t your size, but you’ll buy it anyway.

(b) If you don’t scoop it up, like NOW, within the next five minutes a passing Ivyist (who happens to be the same size as you) will come whistling down the street behind you, spot the item, do a double take and scoop it up for himself. Chuckling to himself at the stupidity of the last bloke to grant himself a five minute cooling off period.

The most likely scenario is (c) Having convinced yourself that all the above is true, you purchase said item, smuggle it indoors and hide it away with all the other similar ones until the perfect day comes along to wear it. On or before that day you will see one twice as good for half the price.

 

#5 2022-04-12 00:49:30

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Spendthrift- scenario (c) definitely applies to me. I have managed to smuggle in plenty of stuff and there are various items going back years that I haven't worn yet. Just waiting for the right time/occasion. My wife seems to have a photographic memory when it comes to my purchases so I'm in for a hard time when we return to the UK in a couple of weeks time and she has a nose in my wardrobe and discovers what I bought last time when I was on my own.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#6 2022-04-12 03:08:57

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 659

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

That's it Robbie.

I've had to start hanging shirts inside other shirts on the hanger until the heat dies down.

I did manage to wear a new pair of shoes out of the door today without attracting the guard's attention.

 

#7 2022-04-12 03:20:18

Tworussellstreet
Member
Posts: 599

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

I have THE MADNESS too. What can you take for it? Relate to all the smuggling tales. Are we forever destined to be the naughty boys being scolded my Matron? Looks like...

 

#8 2022-04-12 03:30:37

Tim
Member
Posts: 289

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

I don't have the problem of smuggling stuff in (or out). My issue lies with being permanently skint. And jealous in nature! Also, not fully knowing some of the whats/wheres/hows (What is the perfect collar roll, where do I buy the shirt I saw so-and-so wearing on Instagram, how do I press my trousers so the crease looks like so? etc etc).
Not having the funds these days is possibly the biggest issue. Quality costs more than ever it seems to me - and the good old days of doddery old dears not knowing what they were trying to flog on ebay are well and truly gone.  I once paid Shamrockmonkey less than a hundred quid Sterling to send me a VERY large box full of clobber he'd thrifted. I miss that.

 

#9 2022-04-12 03:36:42

Tim
Member
Posts: 289

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Also, Instagram is infuriating and inspirational in equal measure. Spendy hit the nail on the head - "Oh my, what a beautiful jumper!" - "Deadstock from 1958, I bought every single one in every size for 15 dollars and I'm storing them in my nuclear-bunker-come-warehouse to only be worn once every decade in an effort to mock you lesser plebs".

Edited to add that should anyone happen to take a size large in Ralph Lauren shirts, I've three or four Madras short-sleeves going begging. I bought them as dead-stock but they don't fit. Some irony big_smile

Last edited by Tim (2022-04-12 03:45:21)

 

#10 2022-04-12 03:48:53

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4187

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

I note Peter Christian are offering Madras shirts at £35. Two for £60. They refer to ‘generous roll of a button down collar’. They don’t look small anyway. They have previously offered terrible Ben Sherman’s.

I also note black models. It used to be white chaps of a certain age to suit pensioners.

Now they are going for diversity, although I doubt the customer base is diverse.

I only buy their trahseez.

Last edited by Kingston1an (2022-04-12 03:53:25)


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#11 2022-04-12 04:10:13

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

They don't look bad for that price but I don't think they have a back pleat which is a shame. Sleeve length looks reasonable and I like the checks.

One of the old white male models has been used but I bet he's days are numbered


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#12 2022-04-12 04:17:54

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4187

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

That’s what I thought. Though I do have an O’Connells old stock Madras with no back pleat and it’s not the end of the world.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#13 2022-04-12 05:43:28

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 659

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Yes I get that Tim. When the boy came to school age, me and The Mrs had no choice but to both go part time to cover drop off/pick up/holidays etc. We weren't in great paid jobs to start off with, so keeping up with the 'Top Boys' wasn't really ever on my agenda. There's that chap Peter Kinnaird on IG for example. Inspirational to look at. But I don't suppose he's scraping down the back of the sofa for spare change!

So I have to do it the best way I can. Luck. TKMaxx and Charity shops. I quite like it that way to be honest. I like proper shopping. I feel that 'click and order' looses the thrill of the chase for me. Quite apart from the fact that I'd be bankrupt and divorced within six weeks if I opened that door.

I don't particularly get Ivy envy though. I think absolutlely fair play to the lads that can afford the best gear.

As regards the whats/wheres/hows; This is where I miss the photos. As a lurker of some years I really learned and took inspiration from the guys that were posting on TI then. Even though I'd been into the look in one form or another since the age of 12/13. There's always more to learn. It did get punchy at times though!

Whatever Ivy is, or isn't, it's certainly a broad church. Whatever way you find works best for you is good enough I'm sure.

 

#14 2022-04-12 06:44:39

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 659

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Those Peter Christian shirts look miles better than the Ben Shermans. Especially given the big price difference between the two. Who pays £120 fot two Ben Shermans?

 

#15 2022-04-12 07:00:01

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Attempting to keep up with the 'top boys' is nothing if not an amusing concept.  It's also entirely pointless.  You have to work out some criteria for yourself based upon practicality.  If you're awash with cash, of course, and are in and out of London (let's say) pretty often, you might be able to load up with clothing on a regular basis (at least some of which you probably won't wear, or not more than once or twice).  If not, well, you do the best you can, I suppose.
Personally I make my choices according to how my feet feel (tender) or my frame (still cold, even though we're heading toward the Easter weekend).  I'm still wearing a flannel shirt today.
But, Spendthrift, if you can steer well clear of Ebay and the like, you're doing yourself a favour.  Charity shops do yield bits and bobs if one is sufficiently patient.  No shortage of John Smedley in my neck of the woods if that floats your boat.  The factory shop is only a short drive away.
But is a lot of this clothing still 'Ivy League'?  I sometimes wonder if those two words have any real meaning, even in Maine and Vermont.

 

#16 2022-04-12 07:07:16

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

The Ben Sherman shirts at Peter Christian are all wrong for me. Looks like a sewn in rear pleat, the collar too short, the short sleeves too short and have a sleeve button that reminds me of old Brutus shirts. And the BS tab on the pocket is not needed. Suspect they are trying to appeal to old skinheads that weren't clued up in the first place.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#17 2022-04-12 08:17:07

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Question: if Ben Sherman did something - anything - right, would it persuade any current 'Talk Ivy' poster to wear the item? 
Staceyboy once spoke favourably about a particular shirt he owned.  I can't recall the details.
I would not and could not.  The name is fatally tainted - probably more so than any other.
But a Mercer shirt sold on Ebay at the weekend tagged 'Skinhead'/'Suedehead' or some such bollocks.

 

#18 2022-04-12 08:20:54

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Oh, yes, and I'm sorry to have to say this but I'll take a 'Hunt Club' l/s over almost anything else.  Especially bloody Gant.

 

#19 2022-04-12 10:27:36

Spendthrift
Member
Posts: 659

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

I just counted up the Ben Sherman shirts in my ‘current’ wardrobe. i.e. in use as opposed to sitting around in boxes and bags in the garage/attic. One. White/blue/brown gingham. Big three finger rolled collar. Pleat not sewn in. Can’t be that old as it has that tag on the pocket, but God knows where or when I got it. It’s okay though.

I’ve had many, many more over the years. All retired for precisely the reasons Robbie outlines above.

It’s a shame really. They were quite respected in the sixties and early seventies, but they were a different animal then. Somewhere along the line they overplayed the ‘British’ card. The shirt to wear if you’re hard. They were already somewhat the smart alternative to a Cockney Rejects T shirt, then they became a smart alternative to a hoodie.

I don’t think they’re as tainted as the black Fred Perry polo. FP are currently on a mission to ‘take back’ the laurel logo. Surely a sign that it’s already taken a big right turn too far, too long ago?

I love what AFS says above. About basing it around your own criteria and wallet. You can wear Ivy if you wear a suit every day for a very well paid job. Or if like me you’re just generally kicking around. Summer or winter. Just adjust it accordingly for what the day brings. It’s all good.

Is it still ‘Ivy League’? Possibly not. In it’s purist or original form. But all you can do is keep driving it on if it’s your thing.

Seventies British punk. Nothing like ‘original’ American 60’s or 70’s punk. Late 70’s mods. A mile away from 50’s modernists. Look at the difference between a typical 1969 and a 1984 skinhead.

There’ll always be some old boy wagging his finger and muttering ‘we didn’t wear that’. They’re simultaneously leaving it behind and clinging onto it. And don’t like the idea of ‘their thing’ moving on and evolving away from them.

 

#20 2022-04-12 10:36:46

Kingston1an
Member
Posts: 4187

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

‘Suspect they are trying to appeal to old skinheads that weren't clued up in the first place.’

Possibly; but you would not expect proper geezers to be looking at a country clothing site.

In defence of Ben Sherman, it was only ever the slim-fit cut that was the problem. I don’t remember them before sewn-up box pleats. Their fabrics however were often far better than Ivy/Squire Permanent Press. They had magnificent variations of blue stripe materials that I have not seen equalled since.


"Florid, smug, middle-aged golf club bore in this country I'd say. Propping up the 19th hole in deepest Surrey bemoaning the perils of immigration."

 

#21 2022-04-12 11:36:40

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 903

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Spendthrift has summed up very eloquently the Ivy conundrum we face in three simple options. Superb.

Ivy economics: Supply and Demand meets Joy and Pain.

 

#22 2022-04-12 12:31:17

RobbieB
Member
Posts: 2219

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

In the late 70s a mate of mine found a shop in Seven Kings, Essex selling old stock Ben Shermans  at a knock down price. The owner was an Irish guy with connections to the factories that used to make them. We bought a load of them as they were quality shirts. No logos, all correct details in plain colours and stripes. They were a match for some of the American import shirts at that time. If I could buy them again today I would do.


'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.

 

#23 2022-04-14 07:40:47

Staxfan
Member
Posts: 781

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Alvey - going back to our comments a couple of days ago re The Original Madras Co,( it's been bothering me your comment re the shirt collar roll !), I had an email from Oi Poloi today and while I was working my way through my lunch I had a look at their website, they have TOMC shirts, the collars are nothing like the one I bought last year, I got mine from ' Merchants Menswear' (somewhere down in Devon), they've still got a few left from last year, worth checking the photos for the collars, the photos show the shirts flat and also open necked on a model, decent roll, phew...
Regarding Ben Shermans I had several in '68, my recollection is mine weren't slim cut, good cloth as Kingstonian mentions, open pleat , I think I bought one or maybe two late '68 that had the pleats sewn in,(& maybe darts), I unpicked them, a couple of problems with the BS's , the 2nd button was too high up the placket,and there were a lot of them about so didn't have the exclusive feel about them that the Sero, Career Club etc had from the IS where as recently mentioned there were probably just a few in each particular check or stripe, and of course you felt somewhat superior wearing a USA made original,

 

#24 2022-04-14 15:33:21

AlveySinger
Member
Posts: 903

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

Just had a review of various comments re the Madness.

Staxfan - Merchants appear to sell Hartford pocket polos. Sadly non available in my size. I believe these were once stocked in Russell Street and were popular.

2RS will probably know more

Mr Kingstonian's Peter Christain shirts look great. I wish the sleeve was more like a half sleeve but at £35 they're good value

Best shirt I found was a Polo one at Oi Pollio but it has the dreaded logo on it.

 

#25 2022-04-14 15:36:50

AFS
Member
Posts: 2740

Re: MADRAS MADNESS

I managed to buy a USA-made pocket polo without the logo last autumn.  Very, very understated. 
But I'm sold on Peter Geeson and wish I could find another like it.

 

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