Modernism in its pure form was about being young and ITK and last but not least being British. The idea, in a nutshell, was to embrace anything 'cool' from the US and the continent as well and give it a British twist. Thing is it wasn't a conscious idea as such, it was obviously an organic thing, as one might expect, that lasted for a few years only. People in general did move on and did it fast...

The media hype supposedly killed it (it would have died anyway of course), so it was pretty much dead by '63 or '64 at the latest although the so-called 'spirit' did live on. Too much was and is being made out of that I think as basically kids just wanted to be modern and look good in the first place. It's all nice and well being inspired by a certain concept that was basically made up with hindsight via the Mods! bible and what have you, but to think one is being special like that is plain ridiculous really.

I'm still interested in image and I love the clothes we discuss here and I'll always be interested in 'deep black sounds' but c'mon...I'm just glad to be an adult with a few childish notions

Remember, on TV, when John Simons was described as 'an original mod'?

(And didn't Pablo get to do his oral examination on the history of the Brutus shirt?) 

Someone once told us John and Ian Strachan used to piss themselves laughing at...

But that's another story.

In actual fact, I'm rather forcing myself to re-read Valerie Wilmer's earnest autobiography 'Mama Said There'd Be Days Like This' (I'm not convinced her mother actually said anything of the kind) just for the meagre 'Modernist' crumbs it offers - i.e. on Ronnie Scott's and The Flamingo.  R&B I can do without, exactly like hard bop, but Georgie Fame gets a dispensation, not least because of the mutual admiration society he formed with Blossom Dearie. 
On the whole, though, I'll be relieved to leave Soho and return to the West Village.

I never seem to encounter those ladies nowadays.  Like Valerie Wilmer, they all seem rather earnest - else vague and with a bad habit of repeating the same nonsense as one another (i.e. we all grew fat during 'lockdown' - that's the latest pile of horseshit.  I was putting on weight - as Johnny Simons told me - well before any westerner had heard of wet markets in Wuhan).  But forty and more years ago, yes, the young ladies often seemed friendlier, didn't they?  I remember one very interesting encounter with a young filly (all tweed and pearls) on the bonnet of her mothers Jaguar in a multi-storey car park.

The kiss and grope and tell thread!

This is really interesting stuff and you can clearly see a crossover between the current crop of Mods and guys who like Ivy.

But as it has been said elsewhere on here there is an increasingly blurred definition of what is Mod and who are the mods.

For the purpose of this post I referring to guys who like the sixties look and anything Wheeler haircut inspired.

I think the main difference between the two is Mod appears to cover a lot of territory outside of Ivy and is governed by fit.

In both camps you will find items that are unique to their respective followers - patch madras at J Press versus cycling tops at Atom retro.

In my experience Ivy has shown a bit more flexibility - adapting proportions, colours and fit to reflect current fashion trends. The OCBD's I'm currently wearing are a lot more fitted than the ones I wore in the mid Eighties.

I also think Ivy can be a bit more rigid as what's is  actually Ivy and what's not.  For me an Ivy jacket will always have a soft shoulder and most likely be undarted and single breasted.

(The shop does not stock - on the whole - what either of us was wearing, being given over more to Carhartt-type work wear, Ban-Lon, some Pendleton and Fred Perry and a fair number of darted jackets - no sacks that I saw.  Lots of denim, including Levis.  Roamers desert boots.  A lot of generic and not terribly interesting 'Americana'.  But their average punter was the same years ago as they are now: students and skaters.  But they once had odds and ends of London Fog, Woolrich, even Paul Stuart.  And pea coats).

I believe JS may have been the first to recognise its potential as part of the overall Ivy look.

I've never thought of wearing Carhartt, though I did once wear Filson, which was expensive on Ebay years ago and, I think, continues to be so.  I can't see why.

A poster on DW name-checked Nik Cohn.  One of his books, like the Frank Norman study of Soho, has become a genuine rarity; possibly more so.  Like the DW poster, I'd be fascinated to read this.  I expect there are photographs, quite likely in black and white.  Might it complement 'Revolt Into Style'?  (Melly, not Jason Jules).

Alvey, I'm not sure.  I remember reading a book of York's in which he took pot shots at graphic designers, ladies of a certain age wearing yellow dungarees and Kickers, chaps in Fairisle vests etc.  Perhaps that's the one.  Quite enjoyable.