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#1 2022-06-23 05:48:49
- AFS
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'Just Clothes'
Perhaps, when all the hurly-burly's done, that's all they are in 2022. It's possible that they have no social significance whatever and that the WASP elite (whatever that amounted to) in the USA no longer has any relevance whatever. So bugger off FDR and Adlai Stevenson (for beginners).
Where do we go from here? Suggestions on a postcard please. Not, I hope, in the direction 'DW' is taking.
It may be that Vetra and Paraboot must conquer all. John Smedley and raw denim in addition?
The American influence might truly be waning.
#2 2022-06-23 05:52:03
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Alvey might want to chip in later. He's often pretty upbeat about the English scene.
#3 2022-06-23 11:30:53
- Tworussellstreet
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Things can be as simple or complex as you wish them to be. Nothing is 'just' anything, and certainly not clothes which are just loaded with semiotic intent, whether we like it or not. If they had no associations, no history, no backstory then we wouldn't be interested in 'Ivy'. As I've said before when we debated cool, if you crave anonymity shop at M&S.
#4 2022-06-23 11:44:32
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Wasn't it JFMs line? I never really believed him. He was simply oozing with, dripping with, history and associations.
#5 2022-06-23 11:48:40
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
I would very much like it - more than like it, in fact - if Johnny Simons could be persuaded to issue an A-Z Style Guide... Or would that dilute, dissipate and subtract?
#6 2022-06-23 11:50:34
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Fifty views. Comment, someone. Anyone can voice an opinion.
#7 2022-06-23 11:55:19
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
I must have been craving anonymity last week when stalking the streets of this one-horse town wearing a cotton Corbin Madras jacket with a 'sherberty pink' Saks Fifth Avenue linen shirt; attempting to outdo Richard Press. No-one seemed to bat an eye. Contrast that to around fifteen years ago: again a Madras jacket, but worn simply with a white Brooks shirt, Levis and penny loafers. Heads then turned. What has happened during the intervening years?
I'll tell you: more fools staring at little screens.
#8 2022-06-24 15:48:50
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Sammy Ambrose, it appears, is broadly in agreement with TRS on this point.
#9 2022-06-24 21:49:38
- Sammy Ambrose
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Below is from Ivy Style. Are you arguing with yourself here AFS!
A Fine Sad Man? |? June 23, 2022 at 8:28 am? |? Reply
Perhaps, when all the hurly-burly’s done, we just accept that clothes have a huge amount of social significance. The WASP elite (whatever that amounted to) in the USA still has massive relevance.
FDR and Adlai Stevenson and JFK would have loved those khakis.
The American influence might truly be on the rise. Count me in.
7
If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman
#10 2022-06-24 21:49:59
- Sammy Ambrose
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Below is from Ivy Style. Are you arguing with yourself here AFS!
A Fine Sad Man? |? June 23, 2022 at 8:28 am? |? Reply
Perhaps, when all the hurly-burly’s done, we just accept that clothes have a huge amount of social significance. The WASP elite (whatever that amounted to) in the USA still has massive relevance.
FDR and Adlai Stevenson and JFK would have loved those khakis.
The American influence might truly be on the rise. Count me in.
If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman
#11 2022-06-24 21:50:44
- Sammy Ambrose
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Below is from Ivy Style. Are you arguing with yourself here AFS!
A Fine Sad Man? |? June 23, 2022 at 8:28 am? |? Reply
Perhaps, when all the hurly-burly’s done, we just accept that clothes have a huge amount of social significance. The WASP elite (whatever that amounted to) in the USA still has massive relevance.
FDR and Adlai Stevenson and JFK would have loved those khakis.
The American influence might truly be on the rise. Count me in.
If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman
#14 2022-06-24 23:38:06
- Sammy Ambrose
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Your alter ego, then.
If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman
#15 2022-06-24 23:47:59
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
^ 'Semiotic intent'. Yes, indeed. Probably the more so in the UK and Japan.
#16 2022-06-25 00:22:24
- Sammy Ambrose
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Perhaps he wanted to say semiotic 'meaning'.
That might have been his semantic intent.
If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman
#17 2022-06-25 00:30:25
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Sammy, he's an articulate individual so I'm sure if he said 'intent' he meant 'intent' and not 'meaning'. I do, however, grasp your point.
Certain people have dismissed Ivy dressing as 'Just Clothes'. TRS is clearly not one of them. His comments about M&S are wholly relevant in this context (although I believe some of their old, UK manufactured knitwear to be just as acceptable quality-wise as, say, Cable Car).
We've all put in some effort over the years to track down and wear clothing that the average man wouldn't care tuppence about.
Surely that's partly the point, isn't it? The alternative - anonymity.
#18 2022-06-25 01:58:33
- Sammy Ambrose
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
AFS said:
"(TRS) is an articulate individual so I'm sure if he said 'intent' he meant 'intent' and not 'meaning'.? I do, however, grasp your point.? "
Well ,for Ivy's sake, let's hope that you both can grasp that inanimate objects can't have intentions!
But, come on guys, give DW a chance. You'll be able to learn how to correctly use fancy words such as 'semiotic', and since it looks as if Yuca, who was a good forum tutor in the appropriate use of English seems to have gone AWOL, it might be a good time for you to give it a go.
Worth thinking about?
Maybe?
If you aren't seeing through all three eyes at once day and night you are up shit creek without a paddle. The Shooman
#20 2022-06-25 16:00:15
- AlveySinger
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Summer 2022.
A paradox.
I can’t remember a time when getting hold of menswear was so easy.Lots of bricks and mortar stores to enjoy. All the major brands have an online presence. Fast efficient deliveries. Ebay and outlets.International shipping to your door.
So why with so much available and with it being so accessible are so many British men looking so bad.
Post lockdown I’ve seen the growth and acceptance of the comfort culture. With Zoom and Teams you can get away with little more than a clean shirt.What’s acceptable office wear has changed for many of us.
Expensive clothing is no longer just about tailored items it’s the Casablanca sweatshirt worn by a premiership footballer.
Logo festooned items bearing the names of historical brands that are now empty shells run by v/c’s are the currency of getting into restaurants, clubs and Hello magazine.
So where does that leave Ivy.
The clothes still have meaning to those of us who still care.
You can be passionate about the style, the brand, country of origin and the heritage.Wharever floats your boat.
The beauty of Ivy is that it’s owned and driven by the wearers and not some exploitative designer. And better yet each wearer has their own vision of what Ivy is and sets their own budget.
In the UK we are exceptionally lucky to have John Simons as the standard bearer of grown up clothes.Proof it’s not all Harry Styled in a Gucci dress.
It’s about caring about what you wear without caring how others might perceive what you’re wearing. You instinctively know what’s right and more importantly what’s wrong.
These days just wearing a sports jacket makes you well dressed.
Ivy in the UK versus Ivy in the USA are two different things that overlap in the same way that both countries claim English as their language.
#21 2022-06-26 01:25:34
- AFS
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Alvey strikes a welcome note of optimism in his post above. One should be grateful for it.
I would always place the emphasis on 'low key'. Reckless experimentation on my part has invariably proved a grave mistake.
But summer is here so out comes the colourful Madras, the brighter cashmere sweater. All liberating - and over too soon.
In England, certainly, Mr. Simons is the standard bearer. There's really no-one else.
#22 2022-06-26 06:45:20
- RobbieB
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Re: 'Just Clothes'
Alveys post articulates well my thoughts. I also appreciate the optimistic tone of the post.
'I am a closet optimist' Leonard Cohen.