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#1 2008-02-17 10:17:41
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
French Cordovan is better than American?
Yeah, it is.
Because the French ate/eat horses Cordovan leather is just a by-product of the Butchery industry over there.
Not a 'luxury' product like in the US and so it isn't presented as such - No high gloss shines unless you want them, no inflated pricing depending on the brand you buy. No big deal.
Cordo is a fetish over on AAAT (& I must say I love the look of those newly found Paul Stuart Cordo 'Weejuns'). The Alden LHS especially is a big deal over there largely because of the postings of that Internet fantasist, & my Ol' Chum, Harris.
Probably the Alden LHS 986 is the stupidest shoe ever.
A bad copy of the casual slip-it-on-and-kick-it-off original Bass Weejun at a silly price in an over-sophisticated material with a bad shiny finish and far too smooth stitching around the toe for an American loafer. Rather it's the bastard child of a smoothed-off European loafer cut in an American style made out of a horse's ass.
But it has snob appeal based on its price I grant it that.
After I break now for a little light tea with my wife and daughter I will continue this... Until then -
James.
#2 2008-02-17 10:19:48
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
http://www.aldenshoe.com/cat_ane4_986.htm
Dress shoe or casual shoe?
It satisfies neither requirement very well.
#3 2008-02-17 10:45:42
- Marc Grayson
- Member
- Posts: 8860
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
It's true that quality cordovan, and horsehide, in general, is harder to obtain in the US, largely because of the dramatic decrease in the horse population here. One reason it's coveted here might be due to its relative scarcity. I know from personal experience in looking for a horsehide leather jacket that Langlitz, located in the US, doesn't even want to work with horsehide and cordovan any longer for this reason, although Aero, located in Scotland, continues to do so.
"‘The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inner tranquility which even religion is powerless to bestow." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Looking good and dressing well is a necessity. Having a purpose in life is not." Oscar Wilde
#5 2008-02-17 11:15:52
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
Last edited by David (2008-02-17 11:17:02)
#6 2008-02-17 11:26:09
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
Just had a nice PM which equated the 986 to wearing a silk BD.
Yeah, it has the same shape to it. Kinda. But it's over-done.
My feelings exactly on these 986s.
Don't tell me that they are the ultimate in Classic American style. They're another option for sure, one of many, but really no more than that...
However I will agree that they are the ultimate in Harris' fantasy of what he calls "Trad".
Meanwhile back in the real world...
#7 2008-02-17 11:39:57
- captainpreppy
- Member
- Posts: 1536
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
French vs. American cordovan???? Facts: Most of the quality shell cordovan comes from Horween Tanneries in Chicago. Most of their shells come from France. End of matter.
Actually, the horse population is very large in the USA. In many areas it verges on an overpopulation problem. However, horse-lovers have pushed through legislation to close down just about all slaughterhouses where horses are slaughtered for meat for export, largely to France.
#8 2008-02-17 11:46:51
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
Shame I can't edit the thread title!
How about "Alden 986s are over hyped"?
I really don't see the fetish for Aldens apart from fetishism & snobbery. MB stuff.
You'd think they were the Holy Grail on AAAT.
French shoes made from Cordovan are free from all that silly talk. A breath of fresh air!
J.
#9 2008-02-17 11:51:02
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
... And if it's the same leather then it's better value in France, better in style in France, better because it is free from the aspirations of Harris in France...
... Maybe?
Who knows?
J.
#10 2008-02-17 15:47:18
- Incroyable
- Member
- Posts: 2310
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
I've also seen some nice cordovan items from Japan.
Jukebox Babe
#11 2008-02-17 17:16:04
- Marc Grayson
- Member
- Posts: 8860
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
"‘The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inner tranquility which even religion is powerless to bestow." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Looking good and dressing well is a necessity. Having a purpose in life is not." Oscar Wilde
#12 2008-02-17 19:03:10
- captainpreppy
- Member
- Posts: 1536
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
Horsehide is too heavy for men's shoes. It is an excellent leather for work or outdoor boots, however. I presume the purveyor of horsehide being referenced is Horween. My informant on these matter buys a lot of horsehide and some shell from Horween, so I'll have to ask him if he has noticed an increase in prices and/or a dropoff in quality.
#13 2008-02-18 08:13:04
- AQG
- Member
- From: The Sticks
- Posts: 1306
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
It was my sloth (see impressive score on the going to Hell thread) that first brought me to buy shell cordovan shoes. The promise of seldom or ever having to polish shoes appealed immensely to my slack nature. The two pairs I have, some full brogues and the here-maligned 986 are not disappoinments in this respect. They take neglect quite wonderfully. Sure, I would have preferred a more weejun-like mocassin construction rather than the fully welted 986 with the faux top-stitching, but they were what was on the market and slackers can't be choosers.
#15 2008-02-19 00:10:29
- Horace
- Member
- Posts: 6433
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.
#18 2008-02-19 20:52:31
- Gladhatter
- Member
- From: Clintwood Virginia
- Posts: 296
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
Mark, good to see you with a hat in your avatar finally. I am thinking about selling my horse farm now and or eating them and skinning them out. Prize stock should make good eats and fine jacket wear.
Mark and others, have you spoken to Peter Boatwright at Wested Jackets ? I think he is on your side of the waters and some love his horse hides popularized in the Indy movies up till this latest one when it was rejected and I do belive a Chicago based company got that contract.
To learn about traditional ultra custom bespoke commissioned hats please come visit the hat forum at : http://www.gladhatter.com
#19 2008-02-20 00:34:55
- Horace
- Member
- Posts: 6433
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
""This is probably the last Deb season...because of the stock market, the economy, Everything..." - W. Stillman.
#22 2008-02-22 07:19:01
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
Brooks did have some lovely leather made-in-Maine handsewns for $85 a go in '88 in AMERICAN Tassel & Penny styles - Sebago would be my guess as to the maker. The tassel is very like the current Sebago 'Kerry' & the Penny isn't too far away from the 'Cayman II'.
Other than that most Brooks shoes were European in style, Peal & all that. But the Alden LHS stands out as an oddity in the cannon of classic American style even allowing for the Anglo influence. Its saddle is American, but the profile of its toe is European - A very unsatisfactory hybrid.
I would suggest that the exaggerated status of the cult of the 986 is a recent thing & pretty much just internet driven. It's Harris at work again. It's a bit like a Weejun (sorta) and its Cordo so he latched on to it.
The European styled Alden tassel is more the right style & features (in its Brooks incarnation) in the OPH too. 'Arry's Bible.
What is missing from the whole Harris/Trad conception of American style is the division of shoes between the formal & the informal which absolutely used to exist.
The 986 hedges its bets in both directions & fails on both counts.
Often this failing in AAAT Trad is excused by the assertion that the style is all about being dressed down when dressed up and dressed up when dressed down (etc). Well... yes & no. There are nuances as ever which are missing in that line of thought.
(Another short break while I apply my new ointment, more later...)
J.
#23 2008-02-22 07:51:32
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
I now smell wonderfully of marzipan, but I can't say that I'm enjoying the stickiness... Still, I'm sure it's worth it...
Maybe that's enough for the moment on the cult of the 986, although I'm happy as ever to pick up on any points that might interest people.
I bought a couple of pairs of Fairmount 'Ancient Cordovan' Pennies for chums this week & am rather happy on the whole that they are still my little discovery & nobody elses just at the moment.
Onwards & upwards -
#25 2008-02-22 08:41:43
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: French Cordovan is better than American?
Last edited by David (2008-02-22 08:48:09)