h. logg, a great input! there are definitely some points on your post i've been thinkin about quite a lot as well.

one thing is the ivy style associated with 'old man' look in continental europe. i definitely agree, although i can only really relate to my experinces from where i live, finland. an example: at my former work i used to get a lot of stick from some workmates of mine  for wearing bd shirts, brogues, loafers and the lot as they are somewhat considerd 'old man wear' + 'too formal' where i live (finland) and especially on the field of enterprise i work at (design / advertising). i find it quite fyunny, especially coming from the mod/skin/suedehead subcultural angle aka. what to me was my normal suede/ivy gear was to my workmates a 'stiff old man' style. little did they kn ow, though, with their ironic (read: moronic) print t shirts, hoodies and the lot.

H. Logg's post was very good, agree with his thoughts.

I think a big part of the 'Attitude" is the attitude towads the actual fit, and IME this is the line that differenciates some old guy wearing old guy clothes and another guy that has meticulously chosen or tailored how his "old man" clothes fit.

Given the popularity of OCBDs and "preppy" clothing now (even D&Gs new spring line is all based on preppy/tennis club wear), the guys who aren't "in the know" that dress in it look completely different than a guy who has the background and "attitude". 

I guess because *we* are "Look-ophiles" we just see things with a bit more clarity and precision.