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#1 2008-04-28 09:26:55
- Brownshoe
- Member
- Posts: 490
New England and the Trad
So everyone loves giving Trad stick for not being true Ivy League style. That's fine. I've been thinking that Trad simply takes its cues much more from a classic New Englander sensibility than from the urban, energetic, youthfully clean and functional Ivy League style, and surely there's nothing wrong with that.
The religious piety, reverence for thrift and tradition, nods to wholesome outdoorsy pursuits, love of nautical motifs and professorial tweeds and bow ties, and the often dour disapproval of items judged not in the curriculum all seem to harken back to this old-line starchy Yankee ethos. The OPH was largely coming at the look from this angle as well.
All this is just to say that Trad isn't simply an invented mish-mash of Ivy and preppy and Ralph Lauren, etc. In its purest form, it's an update of fine, handsome tradition of American dress. Maybe not THE classic style (nor is Ivy), but a valid one.
Maybe let AAAC do Trad and FNB do Ivy, with some healthy cross-polination? Might be a sensible way forward.
#2 2008-04-28 09:33:10
- mike
- Member
- From: Covington, KY
- Posts: 1397
Re: New England and the Trad
Thank you - i like you point of view. i like the Yankee starchy ethos even though its not mine.
You love him? He is hephaistion.
#3 2008-04-28 09:48:06
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: New England and the Trad
I only beat "Trad" (But don't forget I've promoted it from the start along with Gomez too) to improve it.
The name is snappy. The marketing position - Ralph Lauren & the OPH - is right for today as the forum has proved.
I've artificially created controversy to rise the profile of all this. I've soothed the "Trads" over on AAAC & persecuted them on SF & here to give them the zeal of righteous martyrs. This is how you make things strong - You attack them.
It's all fake at the end of the day. But that's the Net.
"Harris" has been a useful pawn. He knows so little, but postures so much and that posturing is what sold "Trad" & built up the forum. The forum came about by swamping AAAC with "Trad" posts by the 'Russell Street' team, btw. AAAT was created to stop "Trad" being forever at the top of the AAAC thread list.
Now I've got a forum & want it made better. Having created "Trad" based on Harris' seductive (for some) lies and fantasies I want to make it real & valid.
The best definition of "Trad" comes from 'Trad to the Bone' (Do you also know his name over on AAAT? If so you know he's to be listened to on this subject). You can find it here on Cheeky Monkey's 'Gauntlet' thread. 'Search' will pull it up.
Cling to "Trad", but make it real. That's my offer to you as an Ivy League fan.
This is an experiment in all sorts of things, the manipulation of this medium especially. "Trad" - Fake name, fake rules of dress HAS been sold to people as an easy way into... something. Now I want them to wise up and make what they're into better.
I'll do a Q&A on this if anyone wants.
James of London.
#6 2008-04-28 10:51:58
- Admiral Cod
- Member
- Posts: 412
Re: New England and the Trad
Religious piety? I wear sack suits, to please the ladies. 
"You will find that men of style and their adherents are considered either political enemies of the people or reckless, gluttoness consumers while most live in squalor" - FNB
#10 2008-04-28 12:05:29
- katon
- Member
- Posts: 363
Re: New England and the Trad
I use Trad because I like four letter words. 
The reality of the Ivy League is that they don't wear the Ivy League look there, haven't for a while, and would have a time at it even if they wanted to.
Last edited by katon (2008-04-28 12:06:42)
#11 2008-04-28 12:12:31
- tripchauncey
- Member
- Posts: 568
Re: New England and the Trad
Last edited by tripchauncey (2008-04-28 12:13:21)
#13 2008-04-28 12:28:17
- mike
- Member
- From: Covington, KY
- Posts: 1397
Re: New England and the Trad
You love him? He is hephaistion.
#15 2008-04-28 12:39:41
- Coolidge
- Member
- Posts: 1192
Re: New England and the Trad
Last edited by Coolidge (2008-04-28 12:41:07)
#17 2008-04-28 12:43:03
- mike
- Member
- From: Covington, KY
- Posts: 1397
Re: New England and the Trad
You love him? He is hephaistion.
#19 2008-04-28 13:30:09
- Brownshoe
- Member
- Posts: 490
Re: New England and the Trad
Interesting thoughts, all, thanks.
I'm really not stumping for Trad--I don't think, socially or sartorially, I would qualify--just teasing out a vague notion I've been playing with.
Trad=sort of a folksy, tweedy, mature, Thornton Wilder approach to classic American style.
Ivy=youthful, citified, democratic, jazz adjacent approach to same.
The Trads don't need any help. Done right, it looks great. I don't see how it needs to be improved. The provenance of the term isn't really important anymore. We all (including the Trads) know what's what.
Anyway, I'm not looking for a New England, I'm just looking for another girl.
#20 2008-04-28 13:40:53
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: New England and the Trad
The name means little - The meaning ascribed to the name is what it's all about.
"Trad" sells a worldview which it seeks to link to the clothes to the exclusion of all other interpretations. It's something new. It's not the tradition of this style.
#22 2008-04-28 16:41:19
- longwing
- Member
- Posts: 198
Re: New England and the Trad
It's all trad to me. It's only ivy in London. Or the past.
Trad people don't even talk about this stuff except maybe on the internet where they call it trad. Except for a few who make an awful lot of noise.
#23 2008-04-28 21:40:57
- Brownshoe
- Member
- Posts: 490
Re: New England and the Trad
Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?
James, I understand your position, and I don't think I'm necessarily disagreeing with you.
All's I'm sayin' is that, looked at purely as clothes, the standard "Trad" ensemble of Mercer, Bills, Aldens, bow tie, tweed and Shetland for winter/seersucker and poplin for summer is agreeably New Englandy. However fraudulent in its conception, it has a "vibe," and I think that's it.
It may be impure, out of context, filtered through Ralph Lauren catalogs and the OPH, but I don't think those are all necessarily bad things--it works! Or it can work. It's a viable, wearable real-world look, and an attractive one when done with panache.
#24 2008-04-29 01:12:15
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: New England and the Trad
A point I didn't pick up on last night because time was against me was that both Ol' Trip & Brownshoe mention "Trad" as being an updated take for today. That is not how "Trad" actually presents itself - if it did then I couldn't find fault with it. In the same way that I can fit the equally manufactured 'Preppy' into the story of this style (and I'll say it before you do, 'Ivy League' was pure marketing too). But "Trad" was sold as being handed down through the generations. It claimed a phoney provenance for itself in a bid to give it legitimacy, but in doing so undermined itself no end.
That's a point which "Trads" need to sort out. What is "Trad" meant to be?
"Trad" as the "Preppy" of today is fine & valid. But when you pretend that "Trad" is the venerable old tradition of this style of dress then you make "Trad" & "Trads" look ridiculous because the claim is so easily disproved.
No pleats? No darts? Not so.
I'm fond of calling "Trad" a cartoon & I mean it on two levels - It's a simplified caricature of the style, but it also can be a cartoon in the sense that an artist might use the word: A preparatory sketch for another greater work.
http://www.answers.com/topic/cartoon?cat=entertainment
That greater work is my interest - The big picture. I can fit "Trad" into it, but "Trad" is only a sliver of that picture. It needs to stop pretending to be more than it is.
Best -