Hmmmmm - Are these guys "Trad"?
Wonder how they'd feel about being called that?

Last edited by Russell_Street (2008-07-20 10:14:55)

- What I'm wondering is if we are now using 'Trad' in its true Japanese sense from whence the term came via Flusser onto the Internet in connection with  classic American style. "Trad" is anything old or traditional in Japan - It's a catch-all term which can provide a useful but very generalised shorthand when talking about the past and those elements of it which still linger on into the present.

I love all three of the photographs posted above and admire the style of the men in each very much.
I certainly agree with you that old-line WASP style and traditionally styled English clothing do indeed go hand in hand - Harris over on AAAT had a very interesting post on this subject yesterday on the Brooks/Southwick thread which he has since taken down. Like Harris I see Brooks as initially providing American interpretations of English clothing which would later morph into the rather stylised, uniquely American, so-called 'Ivy League' style that I'm so fond of talking about. After that 'Ivy League' style fashion boom the clothes then become less stylised again over time, but never again quite as Anglo inflected as they had been before the 'Ivy' boom.
With changes of ownership at Brooks this line of development was broken sadly so we will never know what the old American Brooks would have sold today if it still existed. My guess is that they would just have sold what sold primarily, but would have maybe kept more of their 'heritage' items available for those who still wanted the old Brooks look. So they probably would have ended up looking pretty much on the whole as European as they do today anyway.

But of course there's more to all this than just Brooks.

Back to my point - "Trad" on the internet as a general term has really taken hold now I think, so much so that we are starting to view the past through it's prism as it is such an easy and short way of saying 'Here is the old and typical style of such-and-such.' My only quibble with doing that is that although we can just say "Trad" and people will easily get our drift on the Internet are we in danger of losing a lot of the complexity of things if we just reduce them to being "Trad"?

Without the full volcabulary to express our ideas we can maybe all too easily lose the intricacy our ideas.
"Trad" as a term is too general for me, if I'm being honest. I see classic American clothing as full of differently nuanced looks and styles all of which are worth celebrating and recording & I'd hate to lose any of them, but if everything is "Trad" then nothing really is. So I'm not sure how useful or meaningful the term is.

And why are we using a generic Japanese term anyway?

I guess just because it's easy?

It's an entertaining discussion point (for me!), but a bit of a diversion from your thread - Sorry for that.

On the subject of Palm Beach I've just posted something next door about a guy (John Cooper Clarke) who wears vintage Palm Beach Wash & Wear suits. Not that he's at all typical of Palm Beach style.

Who else has That Palm Beach Look would you say?

And one day I must do a thread on 'The Newport Look' too...

Always good to chat, Sir -

Best Wishes -

Last edited by Russell_Street (2008-07-20 12:08:48)

Sounds good, & the very best to you & yours too -

Hope the sun is shining where you are.

Interesting article on Charles Munn and the Palm Beach social set here:

http://newyorksocialdiary.com/socialdiary/2006/11_24_06.php

Particular notable that Munn is credited with having established the blazer/ascot/flannels look that became such a stereotype even before it was killed by Thurston Howell III.

(Well, I don't know why my link doesn't work, but a search for "Charles Munn inventor" should turn it up.)

Last edited by captainpreppy (2008-07-26 12:31:34)