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  •  » The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

#26 2008-11-06 01:06:05

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#27 2008-11-06 01:08:42

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#28 2008-11-06 01:13:35

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#29 2008-11-06 03:45:51

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

So, hopefully chetmiles feels he does have an answer by now wink

 

#30 2008-11-06 05:08:09

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Last edited by Alex Roest (2008-11-06 05:28:42)

 

#31 2008-11-06 06:49:22

heikki k
The Ivyist's Ivyist
Posts: 1442

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#32 2008-11-06 10:05:02

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Here we go - The old 'Behind The Scenes' network yet again:

"... I sometimes find the FNB Forum difficult to read sometimes with all the theories flying around. Style evolution is dynamic and moves at different speeds in different regions. When did Modernism stop and Mod start, well it didn't stop. It is not extinct. Same applies to all the other styles. Once they are born they will never die. Teddy Boys still exist, they are easy to spot. As to are Punks, Skinheads, etc, but Modernism and original Mod is much more Subterrainian.

One to throw into the mix are "Individualists". This was a term used in the early/mid 60's for Modernist/Mods who dressed as individuals and followed no one. Styles were fine tuned and woe betide anyone copying them intentionally. I remember this guy in the 64/65 who had a wafer thin kid mohair suit made up in black, very rare then and original in the area. No one younger or weaker would dream of copying him for fear of getting a "thick ear."

If an internet had of existed in the early 60s. no Individualist would have posted honestly for fear of plagerism. Tailors, shops. record sources, clubs were top secret and only shared within the group..."


^ How did the BBC miss this guy for their 'Mod' show?  All to easily I suspect. Their loss, our gain.

J.

 

#33 2008-11-06 10:10:40

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#34 2008-11-06 11:55:28

chetmiles
Member
Posts: 1099

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Yes; I'd rate McQueen as a pure stylist - just wore what he fancied.

 

#35 2008-11-06 13:08:06

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#36 2008-11-06 13:38:50

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Last edited by Alex Roest (2008-11-06 13:41:51)

 

#37 2008-11-07 13:10:55

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

For the record I should mention some Rockers would call themselves Individualists as well hmm

 

#38 2008-11-10 05:21:25

Chris_H
Ivy Original
From: Watford
Posts: 1666

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

An interesting and detailed view.....

http://www.adamoflondon.com/modernists.html


https://www.facebook.com/groups/hardyandjohnson/

 

#39 2008-11-10 05:43:16

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

^ I really enjoyed that. Ta!

Cards on the table: All of this is really just an add-on to me. Stuff I researched in the 90's thanks to a mate who had been into it all. It's all fascinating, IMO, and it's a story which deserves to be told properly after all the 'Quadrophenia' style mythology & hype...

... So I'm sat here with one of those very small cans of Heineken which looks like a little green beer barrel & some cheese on toast taking a break from catching up on other people's financial ambitions wearing a Sam Fisher Shetland (Petrol Blue), an LL Bean OCBD (Blue/White Candy stripe), a White M&S T. shirt, some Landsend flat front & 1.5" cuffed needlecords (Olive Drab), some Burlington Argyles (Grey/Grey/Grey) & some rather old LL Bean leather slippers...

Red Garland (Sounds like a Christmas decoration...) is playing in the background and I need to pop down to the barbers soon for another college boy crop...

- 'Ivy Stylist' is the best name I can think of for all this.


- End of blog entry -


Jim

 

#40 2008-11-10 06:08:04

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Here ya go:

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Bluesville-Garland/dp/B000000YGF/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_2_img?pf_rd_p=304485601&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-2&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000000Y7A&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0BWQZWGZ1XP2S3DHMR1K

Red in '59. Modernist & with much to tickle the Ivy Stylist too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Bluesville-Japanese-Garland/dp/B00154QROI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1226322432&sr=1-1

^ Click this for a nice big pic.


j.

 

#41 2008-11-10 06:16:10

Chris_H
Ivy Original
From: Watford
Posts: 1666

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Last edited by Chris_H (2008-11-10 06:19:35)


https://www.facebook.com/groups/hardyandjohnson/

 

#42 2008-11-10 07:58:25

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Last edited by Alex Roest (2008-11-10 08:00:27)

 

#43 2008-11-10 08:11:17

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#44 2008-11-10 09:14:30

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Another interesting read here :

http://www.modculture.co.uk/interviews/interview.php?id=51

 

#45 2008-11-10 15:25:36

Suitedbooted2000
Member
Posts: 577

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

I've found this little shot ad
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mxUkmubp3-I

but this more like it
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-OlYLd3e4&feature=related
(Claudio from DNA GROOVE Suggests 20 september 2009)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TBEOptDaeww&feature=related
(Claudio Suggests 24 August 2008)

Lewis

Last edited by Suitedbooted2000 (2008-11-10 15:28:41)

 

#46 2008-11-11 06:43:27

Astridsdad
Member
Posts: 73

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?


Bustin' makes me feel good

 

#47 2008-11-11 08:32:02

Get Smart
Member
Posts: 1106

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Adam's excerpt from his upcoming book was an interesting read. Def always a treat to get a first hand account of something you werent there for, by someone who was.  Tho it does read as very dogmatic, and in many ways antithetical to the spirit of most on this forum, in terms of not living by regimented rules of what's correct and what's not.

But then if you are to label yourself as "mod" then I agree there's very little room for self expression and individuality, despite them thinking they are quite....unique.  After all, it's just another uniform...just a well tailored one.

 

#48 2008-11-11 08:55:35

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

 

#49 2008-11-11 09:51:12

chetmiles
Member
Posts: 1099

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

'Clean living under difficult circumstances'

'They were mods, but a bit grubby looking'

Decline and fall? 

Let's pick Hewitt's thesis to pieces once and for all.

No, we would never have worn a tweed jacket - but the young Marc Feld wore a tweed suit with Church shoes (allegedly).  Now, were Feld, Sugar and their ilk mods or modernists?  Mods, we think, but of a type somewhere between the true 'peacock' and the trendy dancer of 'Ready Steady Go'.  But things moved so quickly in those days.  And, between 67-8 and 1972 (ish) they moved and shimmied and blurred.  Look, if those guys sporting the French Look on the JS website had been original mods they should have been ever so slightly red-faced IMHO.  Look how sharp Peter Moss looks in the early photo and how poncey he looks later on. 
Paolo wants it to be all things to all men, whether you're wearing wingtips from Allen Edmonds or Incontinence pants from the Wade Smith empire; and it just won't do.  There was no common ground between the scabby Perries of Irlam and the sussed scouses of Goodison (nod to Toffeeman, okay?), let alone the wedgeheads and the early R&B enthusiasts, who would not have found it cool to produce their Stanley knives in order to defend their turf - as wide a difference, at the very least, as between the guys who dug Roger Eagle at 'The Twisted Wheel' and the pillheads of Wigan circa 75-6.

What we are talking about here is decadence, the sad decline from John Simons digging Oscar Rabin to having 'Glory Boys' tattooed on the inside of your lip.  The one is understated cool, the other is being a yob.  A yob cannot be a stylist, a stylist would rather die than be a yob; and THIS IS WHERE ELMS REVEALS HIMSELF TO BE SUCH A PLANK!, comparing the blank-eyed Helly Hanson smack-rat even to the Ben Sherman boy of '69, let alone dandy Barry Elms. 

No, my brothers, we move in small numbers, lonely as cats, and may perchance recognise one another within the vicinity of a certain street called Russell or reading a track listing at Ray's.
Alex Roest, however, is sui generis and Jim is just too beautiful for words.

Which brings me back to:

Clean living in difficult circumstances.

We are all clean, shaven, and neat of hair, are we not?

Well, that excludes Weller for all time!

Jim, is it time for my to quit now?

 

#50 2008-11-11 10:00:37

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: The 'mod' and the 'modernist' - whereby lies the difference?

Mate - You're on a roll, don't you dare stop now.

KTF -

Best,

Jim

 
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