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#1 2008-11-06 07:09:02

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Points of Departure -

Not just this - The perfect Christmas present -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Points-Departure-Essays-Modern-Jazz/dp/1900152797

- But the whole nature of ways in to things.

This from one of my PM Cats:

"Obviously my 'in' was via things like Jimmy Smith, Brother Jack MacDuff, dance stuff mainly. Used to go to a great club called the Purple Pussycat where Paul Murphy DJ'd. Got very into Coltrane, remember the first time I heard those opening phrases of 'Blue Train' and was just...transported. Via an old jazzer who was my boss at work even got into Ornette Coleman and Free Jazz..."

- Why not pool our 'way in' stories?

Could be fun.

How did you find the door that lead you here?

Best -

Jim

 

#2 2008-11-06 08:57:12

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Points of Departure -

Here's the original of my 'way in' story. An edited version of this was briefly up elsewhere but is now down... So here's the tale as was intended:



On the face of it there was nothing wrong with my Father's plan to send me away to my Uncle's house in Yorkshire to steep me in the life of 'All Creatures Great and Small'...
Not that my Uncle was a Vet, in fact I think his only encounters with animals were strictly limited to the dinner plate, but that isn't really the point here. Yorkshire was well known to be a healthy, no-nonsense kind of place. Everybody knew that in 1978 when I was 13.
Since 1976 I'd been increasingly restless and after two years of putting up with me it was decided that my habit of sneaking out late at night, or disappearing from school on the London train, to Soho might finally have to be addressed.

The only problem with my Father's plan was the one thing which never occurred to him: My Uncle's record collection.

Harrogate has many charms, but they were all lost on me. Within my first day at my Uncle's (it rained) I had quickly set up home in his study with his records and the ever present smell of his cigars. Here at last was a world which captured my imagination after far too much good behaviour in the past: Loud poly rhythmic music which you could never predict unlike Pop or Classical, graphic design and clothing on the record sleeves like I'd never seen before, and most of all this grown-up masculine world of my Uncle's study where everybody was referred to by slightly derisive nicknames and where even my very much loved Aunt was never allowed to set foot.

If you've ever been a teenage boy then you'll understand the appeal of what I'd stumbled across.

The music worked its spell first. The drumming of Art Blakey and Philly Joe Jones especially connected with all those aggressive teenage instincts. There was a hardness there mixed in with all the rest which I found especially appealing at that age.

And then shortly after the music came the clothes. I started modestly with a pack of two knitted ties from Burtons for about £4.99 and a pale blue Van Huesen button-down from some department store or other.

I'd never really had my own style before or even my own taste in music to be honest. I bought my clothes with my parents & I liked Bach because I had a mathematical brain. My soul was withering on the vine, hence my restlessness.

The thing I remember most about those record sleeves was how hard it was to piece together all the clues to work out what the clothes actually were - The pictures on the back were so small. Shirts were button-down collared, but not like any button-down collars I'd ever seen  - These belled out from the neckband unlike the meagre flat little English collars that knew. Ties were slim & often knitted and equally slim were the shoulders on the jackets of the musicians. They had this lack of definition about them when compared to the straight edged shoulders of any jacket that I'd ever seen before. These jackets just hung on the wearers and they had this wonderfully deliberate slouch about them. To me it just seemed so cool - Here was a world where nobody was standing up straight and taking their hands out of their pockets like the world I came from at home and at school. And I wanted more of all this. I wanted as much of it as I could get.

And so I became hooked.

All my money went on Jazz LPs and clothes from that point onwards. Knitted ties, button-down shirts, jackets and suits which I'd have disastrously altered to approximate the look I was after, shoes which looked almost American - It became a real obsession. In 1981 I had a suit cut based on a John Coltrane LP sleeve by a tailor in Soho and then wore the suit every chance I could until it was threadbare.

And it didn't stop there.

I consumed films, books, imported American magazines and television shows. I even used to check out American tourists in Fortnum & Mason's food hall! Bit by bit I discovered places like Ray's Jazz in London and Flip on Longacre, finally building up to my discovery of J. Simons shop in 1985 and I was home dry at last.

Or at least I would have been had the guys who introduced me to J. Simons not had other plans for me. They'd been customers of John Simons' Ivy Shop in Richmond in 1970 and from there had moved on to Brooks Brothers in New York through family connections. And so yet another door was opened to me, and so in constant debt and with probably more enthusiasm than was sane I made my first trip to New York City and Madison Avenue at the age of 19.

You just know that a story like this deserves to end badly. No good can ever come of a boy who runs away to Soho and who discovers Jazz in Yorkshire instead of all the wonders of nature. But as this is fact, not fiction, in this story everything is going to work out just fine.

From 19 to 25, when I settled down and got married, I lived the life that I'd always dreamed of whilst growing up. America was mine from NYC to the Canadian boarder. Well, a wafer thin slice of the Eastern seaboard was with a few trips inland...
Back home in England between US trips in Christmas of 1987 I was briefly a Saturday Boy at the Ivy Shop in Richmond  - Hallowed ground for an English Ivy fan and I haven't shut up about it ever since. There I was standing in the place where Ivy Style in England had really taken off for the first time in a big way talking to people who had actually been there at the time.
Gradually I slowly got out of debt and started to buy clothes at a slow and steady rate instead of just buying one of everything in each colour as soon as I saw it and somehow life just carried on.
Recently the Internet has provided yet more scope for me to explore my interest in Ivy and that pretty much brings me to today, 30 years on from that first rainy afternoon in Yorkshire.

The American Anglophile is a well recorded phenomenon, Brooks Brothers used to make quite a good business out them, but less well know are stories like mine I think. And the great thing about my Ivy style obsession has been meeting other people with remarkably similar stories to mine. People who just love this style because they love it & have stuck with it while mainstream fashions have changed all around them. The style has taken me to parts of London I'd never been to before, to America and today increasingly to Paris where new friends are helping me to explore the cult following of American Ivy style which once flourished over there.

It's all been and continues to be nothing but fun.

A very commonly asked question by Americans is to ask whether or not I stick out like a sore thumb in London wearing American clothes and the question highlights one of the things that I like about Ivy style very well. The style is so subtle that unless they really have an eye for clothes most people don't spot it. And those who do, unless they are well informed, really struggle to pin down just what the style is. There is this element of familiarity about the suits, blazers and jackets which is then completely blown away by the styling details of the clothes like the Natural Shoulder and the lapel line of a three button jacket rolled to two buttons, leaving a buttonhole seemingly orphaned alone in the line of the lapel.
From a distance I blend into the crowd, but up close it all falls apart. I'm not who you think I am in my Blazer and Flannels because my Blazer and Flannels aren't like any you've seen before and come from a place you know nothing about. I'm MJQ not MCC. And any preconceptions you might have about what a 'conservative' dresser is like are about to get well and truly spoiled when you meet me!

Like I say, it's all been nothing but fun - Keeping the Squares guessing!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B000063NDD/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0


Best -

Jim

 

#3 2008-11-06 17:26:39

Cheeky Monkey
Member
Posts: 1273

Re: Points of Departure -

Bloody good and informative post Uncle-I honestly believe this is one of the best posts I have seen by you (in any of your personas)-the story behind the man - a lot of human intrest stuff in there.

Care to divulge where when and to whom you lost your virginty?


... ... ...

 

#4 2008-11-07 01:12:56

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Points of Departure -

Sadly that's a rather messy story involving a pile of coats at a party. The usual kind of thing.

And I have never defiled a coat from that day since.

 

#5 2008-11-07 01:16:56

Moose Maclennan
Ivy Inspiration
From: Hernando's Hideaway
Posts: 4577

Re: Points of Departure -

 

#6 2008-11-07 01:28:19

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Points of Departure -

*Sheepish Blush*

 

#7 2008-11-11 08:45:12

chetmiles
Member
Posts: 1099

Re: Points of Departure -

I went the long way round: suedehead into punk via Bowie and Roxy Music and the Stones.  A jazz-mad father who advised me to listen to black men instead of Dartford boys, and who had enough books lying around for me to get an idea of the clothing styles.  His trips to the US brought back LPs, polo shirts, chinos and boat shoes and the odd OCBD.  To me, then, it was 'preppie', clean and smart.  And on into Barbour, Burberrys', Daks and Austin Reed, barathea blazers and Loakes brogues into the real McCoy.

 

#8 2008-11-11 09:13:21

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Points of Departure -

What I only ever very lightly touch on is that I wore about seven years of shit before I 'found' JS & wasted a load of money trying to re-tailor English clothes to get that 'US' look.

That's the way to train an obsessive - Starve him of what he wants so he really agonises over it before he can ever buy it.

If the kit had been easier to get I bet I wouldn't have valued it as much. As it was Troy's shirts hit me like a f*ckin' meteor...

... I really think I belong in some kind of zoo... wink

 

#9 2008-11-12 03:34:16

Tom Pinch
Member
Posts: 53

Re: Points of Departure -

1st

Seeing Buddy Rich on UK tv (Sunday Night Live At The Palladium?) when I was a little boy...driving my mother insane using her knitting needles as drumsticks...all over the furniture, the biscuit tin etc...my first big musical event (aged about 7). I never did learn an instrument.


"Well, so long, mister. Thanks for the ride, the three cigarettes and for not laughing at my theories on life."

 

#10 2008-11-12 07:23:02

chetmiles
Member
Posts: 1099

Re: Points of Departure -

Welcome, Tom Pinch!  A rather Dickensian handle!

 

#11 2008-11-12 08:27:47

Tom Pinch
Member
Posts: 53

Re: Points of Departure -

Last edited by Tom Pinch (2008-11-12 08:28:14)


"Well, so long, mister. Thanks for the ride, the three cigarettes and for not laughing at my theories on life."

 

#12 2008-11-12 09:16:38

chetmiles
Member
Posts: 1099

Re: Points of Departure -

Sounds mighty familiar...  remember 'Starman' on TOTP?

 

#13 2008-11-12 09:53:49

Tom Pinch
Member
Posts: 53

Re: Points of Departure -

I've no clear recollection of him on TOTP...although I would have watched avidly. Strongest memory of '72 in that respect is taking 'Ziggy' to the youth club and playing it. We would drink alcohol in the recreation ground and sing the whole album.


"Well, so long, mister. Thanks for the ride, the three cigarettes and for not laughing at my theories on life."

 

#14 2008-11-12 14:33:52

Cheeky Monkey
Member
Posts: 1273

Re: Points of Departure -


... ... ...

 

#15 2008-11-12 15:10:50

chetmiles
Member
Posts: 1099

Re: Points of Departure -

Take no notice of him, Tom, he's fanny-mad!

 

#16 2008-11-12 15:46:01

Moose Maclennan
Ivy Inspiration
From: Hernando's Hideaway
Posts: 4577

Re: Points of Departure -

Last edited by Moose Maclennan (2008-11-12 15:47:23)

 

#17 2008-11-12 18:49:34

Cheeky Monkey
Member
Posts: 1273

Re: Points of Departure -

Serious observation for once- Billy Braggs nose- not so dissimilar to Uncles hooter.
Loved Billy Braggs music - some of his stuff is a little too political - although not all ( being the libertarian I am) but no one can touch the man for his ability to meld a not so great singing voice with some robust guitar playing.


... ... ...

 

#18 2008-11-12 23:53:54

Tom Pinch
Member
Posts: 53

Re: Points of Departure -


"Well, so long, mister. Thanks for the ride, the three cigarettes and for not laughing at my theories on life."

 

#19 2008-11-13 00:12:56

Tom Pinch
Member
Posts: 53

Re: Points of Departure -

3rd

I wore a pair of Oxford bags to school and was mocked continually until others began to wear them. Funk was beginning to rule the dancefloors...crepe-soled wedges, star jumpers, longer hair, baggier trousers, gang fights. My work at school worsened in direct relation to my obsession with girls, clothes and music. This was all common street gang behaviour. We were not outsiders or style elitists. That said, there were many others at school who, in retrospect, did not share our passion. As it turned out, my passion for forward-thinking fashion would remain whilst the rest of the gang gradually let all that slip away during their passage towards adulthood, marriage and mortgages.


"Well, so long, mister. Thanks for the ride, the three cigarettes and for not laughing at my theories on life."

 

#20 2008-11-13 01:26:03

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Points of Departure -

 

#21 2008-11-19 01:22:18

Tom Pinch
Member
Posts: 53

Re: Points of Departure -

Careful...Billy as a style icon is dangerous ground, I think. hmm  Musically, I must say, I would rather listen to ...Girls Aloud? To his credit, though, back in ye olde days of Punke Rocke he had his place as a brave individual willing to stand alone with an acoustic geetar posing as the Uk's Woody Guthrie when everyone else ganged up to make and electric racket. That took some nerve.


"Well, so long, mister. Thanks for the ride, the three cigarettes and for not laughing at my theories on life."

 

#22 2008-11-19 01:44:31

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Points of Departure -

Very happy to notice that a copy of Points of Departure has been sold since I linked it up above! It is indeed a good read.

Mr. Bragg seems to like the slouchy jacket look & wears them in quite a few pics I've seen. Wonder if he regards it as one of his style trademarks?

 

#23 2008-11-19 01:59:54

Tom Pinch
Member
Posts: 53

Re: Points of Departure -


"Well, so long, mister. Thanks for the ride, the three cigarettes and for not laughing at my theories on life."

 

#24 2008-11-19 02:16:19

Moose Maclennan
Ivy Inspiration
From: Hernando's Hideaway
Posts: 4577

Re: Points of Departure -

 

#25 2008-11-19 11:52:16

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: Points of Departure -

 

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