Since Jim has started a new thread, we now seem to have the latitude to ramble about things that may be insignificant, but could have some impact on our culture.

Often the tectonic plates of a culture shift so rapidly that we are almost unconscious of them. In the US, there is a cultural shift that is occurring that  will probably have some lasting effect.

Compelling examples pop up daily:

>A full page ad in the Wall Street Journal today has the the headline "Fewer Better Things". This seems to be what Ivy, and this MB may have had as an undercurrent, since its origination. The ad referred to is an attempt to sell diamonds (good luck with that), but that could also be a theme that comes up here from time to time from those that harken back to the early days of BB, JP, and maybe Simons in the UK.

When Mr Meyer and I recounted our early days at BB, with little money but with the desire for Ivy suits, that may be what we were seeking.

>To get further afield, my wife and I walked past a toy store in our small town, on the way to dinner last night. The place was brimming with a huge stock of very expensive toys. My guess that many will still be there a month from now.

In this community, there is a large number of two income families that struggle to the train to NYC very early, are get home very late because of two high powered jobs. There is little time to spend with young children, so the parents assuage their guilt with the purchase of expensive toys.

What the children really want and need, is the undivided attention of one or more parents. It would seem that this cultural change will be a net plus for our civilization.

>Another shop open, but mostly deserted was Starbucks. This is a dispenser of vastly overpriced coffee products. The company has gone into a sharp decline recently, and may not survive the cultural shift. Paying $5 for coffee doesn't seem like a great idea any more.

Somehow the charm of bringing a cup of Starbucks coffee to work in the morning doesn't seem like such a great idea when co- workers may be facing the loss of a job.

>I think that it was Brownshoe that started a thread someplace recently on something like "sartorial comfort food". Really some great stuff there. Subject was roughly why old Ivy things may be somewhat equivalent to the meatloaf and canned peas that your mother may have  prepared during your younger years.

> There even seems to be a shift in the threads in the Ivy related message boards. If you stipulate that Trad=a discussion of aspirational life styles, and Ivy=a discussion of nothing but clothes, it is possible  that the former will not prove to be nearly as enduring as the latter.

At any rate, it will be interesting to watch things evolve. Alvin Toffler wrote a book 30 years age entitled "Future Shock". That may be where we are.

Thanks, Jim, for moving the thread and affording the opportunity to vent a caffeiniated  James Joyce like stream of consciousness.

So who took a bit of an 'Ivy holiday' here? Who took time out & then returned to their roots?

I stayed faithful, but my clothes today are not those of my youth. My vision is wider now and more informed (I  hope!).

How has your journey been?

Best -

Jim

This is really a very profound thread, seemingly going beyond the subject of clothing per se.

Have you noticed the people that you admire the most really seem to know who they are? Not in an arrogant manner, but at some point in life they figured out exactly who they were, and stayed with it.

OTOH, there are some who constantly seem to be changing, trying to decide what others are looking for.

The first group are those that you really feel comfortable with, and seem to develop mutually supportive relationships with.

Certainly clothes are a part of figuring out "who you are". It is usually the first thing that people notice. It goes to other threads here, such as haircuts, etc.

"To thy ownself be true" seems to make life a lot less complicated, and much more rewarding.

Interesting thread that touches on a topic I've been planning to write about on The Weejun. How and where I've strayed from the path, as it were....

A return to my roots would involve woolly Oxford bags with turn-ups (great for collecting fluff, roadside grit and fag ash), dodgy wedgies (shoes, I mean), silly frilly fronted lacy shirts, crappy tasselled loafers (nice on Gary Cooper or whoever, but not on me).  No thanks!