Belts:

Royden Shot Shell.....Trad

Ribbon stripe......Tradly

Welcome. I hope you get to look around and contribute and you didn't sign up just to respond my two day old snark. I think we all aspire to dress better, and if you check out the Ivy league style for today sticky I think you will find there are multiple ways to do that.  I steal certain ideas shamelessly from vintage ads featured in this forum as well. To be clear about the "good old days", I think there is a lot of appreciation here for "the boom years". There is a difference in having romantic notions about a time period and following an internet created version of the dress and uh lifestyle aspects of that period. My post was not a personal attack though, I don't begrudge anyone. I'm here for the clothes and for a style that can be business, collegiate, sporty, interesting, original and evolving all at the same time. Like I said, Welcome and I hope you stick around. We have great posters here and I learn something everyday.

Robert

Yeah. I don't know about the kissing business but the Church comment was fantastic. You can't buy that kind of clever.

Robert

You are more than welcome to PM me if you need some clarification on what I said. I agree the open forum is not the place to discuss this.

Robert

To boil this down to basics, AAAT, the Curric. & all the Tradly stuff are just a game - We all know that & we enjoy playing it. What Ho, old Bean!

It's popular stuff on these iGent infested foums of ours. And without sucking in the iGents we wouldn't have had the numbers to do any of the things we've done. We needed a certain critical mass to operate.

Having got ourselves established though getting ourselves educated should be the next step. So maybe it's now time for those with a real interest in this style of ours to move on beyond all the play acting which makes them & this style of ours look so ridiculous on the Net.

Another problem with the Tradly pose is that newbies can think that it's real and it messes them up. They start off with a head full of moonshine and it hampers their development as fans of all this stuff of ours. They remain tied to Internet ideas of there being a 'curriculum' & Lord knows what else.

Maybe?

Last edited by Russell_Street (2009-03-25 02:25:55)

Yes, I think wanting to dress well is entirely laudable as is self-improvement of all kinds. And all of this can be done without the Tradly pose. The danger of dressing, acting, presenting yourself as a caricature is that you harm yourself and you harm those things you love by your association with them. The joke spreads like ripples in a pond.

Guys I chat to on SF call the Alden LHS a 'Trad' shoe now and when I ask them what they mean by that they link it absolutely to AAAT and that whole Tradly world at which they laugh.

Not fair to the LHS, in my opinion, that it should be linked to something like that.

The Tradly pose is I think mainly self-protection on behalf of those who adopt it. It's a mask which they can wear to hide their lack of knowledge on this subject of ours. I can understand that. But why feel the need to try to bluff and pose on this subject if you're really into it in the first place? It's probably one of the hardest subjects to bluff about (rather like Jazz) because those who came before you and have spent years learning the details will always spot you a mile off.

The Ol' Ben Silver catalogue business is just one example of this.

Everybody was a newbie once & it is an honourable state. I lived out my learning curve by trail & error in the very public world of London's bars & clubs. I never tried to bluff my way because I knew I never could. Today with the Internet & the world of lazy short cuts we have people who just latch onto things and never question them.

In fairness, on AAAC back then you couldn't question them with the moderation as it then stood.

But now you can.

- There are no real short cuts. There is no club for you to join in reality. Buying into all this internet stuff just makes you a joke to those who actually know this subject. If you're into this style of ours then why not actually be into it - What are you doing calling it silly names and making it look stupid? To us old hands it makes no sense and only marks you down.

Don't take my word for it though - Try to pull your Tradly schtick with Charlie Davidson or Johnny Simons and see the reaction you'll get.

Wowing them on the fora with your cartwheels is one thing, but in the real world where there is no moderation to protect you people are just going to laugh at you.

Most unfair.

So maybe you should now move on from the iFantasy world of 2004 on AAAC? As a trolling technique that whole forum has now served its purpose. A bit of reality won't kill you. Trust me.

Just a thought.

Best -

J.

Well, it wouldn't be fair for me not to respond to your post Red as it was my comment that started all this, or at least led us to this point. It's hard to follow up D&F's post as he all ready said much of what was needed in reply to your post. The strangest thing about your initial post and your whole riff in a defense of another forum is that I stated that aspirational was probably not the right word, and then went on to describe the play acting and costume tendencies that I think some people engage in. I think the larger point of this forum and my pointing you towards the members outfits sticky was that Ivy/americana (traditional american clothing) can be worn in the more casual setting that D&F rightly says is inappropriate for a sack suit and probably even a coat and tie. I wore plain fronts (cords or chinos), Oxford shirts, and mocs most days to class and probably would of laughed at you too. I think the point that was being made and you missed or chose to ignore is best illustrated by a post on Andyland. A lot of younger guys who were attracted to the ivy style were talking about trying to dress appropriately for class. One of them smartly replied to keep it casual with jean cut cords, shetland sweater and blucher mocs. One of the moderators of the Curriculum replied that he would advise against it unless the poster was trying to fit in with other college students, he also stated that perhaps traditional dressing just wasn't for him(the OP). I'm sorry, but that's total Igent bullshit. It flies in the face in of the actual style and actual documentary evidence chronicled by numerous bloggers. I stated in previous posts that I don't begrudge those who choose to follow "the curriculum", and who tie it into a larger cultural framework. I really don't. I wouldn't sit around drinking Blueberry wheat ale with them either but that has to with my own personal preferences. I understand the need to defend one's self and choices. I do think it's a little more than disingenuous to expect anyone to believe that, someone who is in their early 20's who smokes a pipe, shaves with a straight razor, follow some type of "rules" of traditional dress and likes discussing these things with strangers, is not making a very real statement about what how they wish to be perceived. This is just my take on these things.  One last thing, there is no forum definition of Ivy. The thing Russell and others rail against is the invented rules of others that are suppose to be rules for the style. I have not seen any poster on here tell someone they are getting it wrong. We post and read here because we enjoy traditional American style, we all have our own personal conceptions of it but I believe that the documentary evidence bears these out. This forum takes flak from some for being composed of a lot of English people, and Europeans. The ironic thing is that nearly all of us regardless of nationality were into this style before the Trad boards, and a lot of it's members converting their preppy fraternity look into an ivy influnced curriculum. It's like the zeal of the convert with those folks wanting to define everything. That's all well and good but don't expect others to swallow it. All this  said, thank you for your input and I hope you continue to post. Like I said before if there is a better place for those into this style to learn about this style from others, from old advertisements, from media etc. I don't know what it is.

Robert

Last edited by ScarletStreet (2009-03-25 15:22:50)

Last edited by redmanca (2009-03-25 15:48:07)