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#26 2009-04-07 15:21:49

DB
Member
Posts: 216

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#27 2009-04-07 21:06:15

3buttonMax
Member
Posts: 19

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

I think there are bona fide differences,the Uk contingent  I think connect most strongly  w/ 1955-68  American clothes and culture-possibly including some  extreme  Ivy -very small lapels ,  very thin ties-- I enjoy a  lot but not all of this.. and saw  some of it 1st hand!-  If we are calling post 80  trad,
well I fell into some great things   hopsack  3 button tan blazers,  80s brooks shirts etc   a bit of thrifting 10 years after the fact...
my take  having at least gigged around  and viewing things  close up -trad never really got the old money thing down-and their  mindset  and some clothes were just as costumey as over the top  "made for tv 1965   tiny lapel Botany 500  moments.-  I had a moderate lapel  chambray  yellow sport jacket   from the 60s -I had it pressed  to 3 roll to a 2-wore it to a country club gig and next to me is this ancient  guy , major Bryll cream horn rims  etc.-has done the very same thing  w/his jacket  (which was green)--if the clothing item wasnt too extrme  theold money didnt throw anything out. they also didnt buy a hell of a lot  some things could be passed down-(to digress---they could happily  wear a  cheap timex  or use a Bic pen-what the hell did they care? they probably  had Grandpas  Cartier tank   watch  and an old MontBlanc in a dresser  drawer anyway)-trad seemed to be "collectors"
collecting a life style is what they were really doing---the old money -or what was left of it-like Mr Green blazer,I think his fam was in chemical business  before 1900. we
chatted for a second  -I was at work- trad trolls would tell you  they knew each other at Mystic seaport.-not me ! I was grateful  to be employable  and got to work  in a world now vanished.-

I have to say I love the UK take on this -didnt Alistar Cooke  report on the Us  beautifully? we need   the big  perspective... Ivy welcomes  the guy in the 1920  Hrvard pic and  even accepts the  trad buying  some southern college motif pants last week- my 2 cents  but hopefully even handed
Max

 

#28 2009-04-07 21:25:18

Decline & Fall
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 850

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?


"I like bars just after they open in the evening. When the air inside is still cool and clean and everything is shiny. The first quiet drink of the evening in a quiet bar-that's wonderful."
— Raymond Chandler

 

#29 2009-04-07 21:30:45

Decline & Fall
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 850

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?


"I like bars just after they open in the evening. When the air inside is still cool and clean and everything is shiny. The first quiet drink of the evening in a quiet bar-that's wonderful."
— Raymond Chandler

 

#30 2009-04-07 22:33:31

ScarletStreet
Member
Posts: 540

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

I think you have really nailed it here D&F. It's what I was trying to get at above. Its the fact we have this in common and each come to it from a different place that makes all of this discussion pretty interesting most of the time. And there is a real link between people discovering a foreign style in a place like England and those of us  in our twenties or thirties now trying to piece together our own version of the look from a variety of modern sources. When I got into Jazz/Soul/Blues/Ska, it's not like there was a lot of it in the popular culture. It required effort. Same with these clothes.  I also think it's interesting that a lot of English guys picked up on a look that originated in the States but had obvious Anglo roots, and on the flip side some of us on this side of the Atlantic take some style cues from parts of the English Mod/Skin thing that obviously has at least some American influences (even if those just musical). It's this weird circular relationship and as far as this forum goes it seems to work pretty well among the enthusiasts.

Last edited by ScarletStreet (2009-04-07 22:34:23)


"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

 

#31 2009-04-08 01:19:26

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

Last edited by Russell_Street (2009-04-08 03:49:59)

 

#32 2009-04-08 03:49:06

chetmiles
Member
Posts: 1099

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

RS' instincts are generally very sound; he writes nicely, informatively, and the JS website benefits (IMO) from his piece.  Bear in mind that here in the UK the guys who took him under their wing are part of a specific modernist heritage - gay and Jewish - linking to 50 years or more of Ivy (or call it what you will) heritage.  It may be something of another paradox, but the links are somehow stronger between Jews and gentiles via clothes, music and sense of humour than between English and American - in this context at least.  It is a contradiction, and one I find difficult to explain, but it is part of our cultural identity nevertheless. 

The guy keeps the show on the road!

 

#33 2009-04-08 06:10:55

AQG
Member
From: The Sticks
Posts: 1306

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#34 2009-04-08 06:17:52

Gomez
Member
From: old trolls home
Posts: 500

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

hi nephew -

i amhapy to say that im a zealous phan.

-Uncle G

 

#35 2009-04-08 06:39:14

Natural Sole Brother
Ivy, naturally.
Posts: 782

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

"Which one of you bitches is my mother?"

 

#36 2009-04-08 08:04:55

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#37 2009-04-08 09:39:49

AQG
Member
From: The Sticks
Posts: 1306

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#38 2009-04-08 09:59:03

Brownshoe
Member
Posts: 490

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#39 2009-04-08 10:03:31

Decline & Fall
Ivyist At Large
Posts: 850

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

Last edited by Decline & Fall (2009-04-08 10:06:41)


"I like bars just after they open in the evening. When the air inside is still cool and clean and everything is shiny. The first quiet drink of the evening in a quiet bar-that's wonderful."
— Raymond Chandler

 

#40 2009-04-08 10:07:11

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

Dear Old AQG -

You are shit.

... But again I jest.  wink

As a foil to my posts you're very weak and so I'm being rude to you to 'ginger' you up a bit ...

... But to be honest you really are a thick hoho. wink

(Only joking!)

- Let's cut to the chase?

I say you have nothing to offer here.

I equally say that all I offer here are debating points, but I'm still offering more than you are.

CLAG is what you are, Sir.

A word I learned (I hope correctly) from some dear old Northern chums.

Shall we play on?

Let's!

Best -

Jim

Last edited by Russell_Street (2009-04-08 10:07:52)

 

#41 2009-04-08 10:10:27

AQG
Member
From: The Sticks
Posts: 1306

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#42 2009-04-08 10:11:22

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

Yeah, you are - Why are you here?

 

#43 2009-04-08 10:58:28

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

Egad! ( wink )

PMs & Emails just in -   AQG is much loved & I shouldn't be a 'bitch' to him.

- And, actually, I think that's very fair. Sorry, AQG.

Other views are that he should be on a 'Preppy' or 'Trad' forum and not here.

Hmmmm - Well. It does all connect, but it is all different.

Maybe AQG could work for Chensvold next?

Worth a thought?

 

#44 2009-04-08 11:37:11

mike
Member
From: Covington, KY
Posts: 1397

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?


You love him? He is hephaistion.

 

#45 2009-04-08 11:49:02

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

AQG is a great banterer.

I spout Ivy, he talks about Preppy... We are family.

... Btw, I actually have a photo of you now, Mike, from your Uncle M. - You really have a great look & are way beyond 'pretty'. I really like your toughness.

... Mrs Street doesn't need to know about this.

 

#46 2009-04-08 18:57:20

AQG
Member
From: The Sticks
Posts: 1306

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#47 2009-04-09 00:59:37

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

I was honestly rather taken aback last night by how poular you are. Surely that's nice to know?

As for the rest... Well it's just 'showbiz' again isn't it?  *smiley icon*

I'm happy to keep the banter going though - How do you really feel about 'Trad' being the best the Net can do? That really is the point here. My stuff being the best I can do or not is a nice side issue but not as interesting to me. Looking at my life this morning I don't think there's any aspect of it which I couldn't do better to be honest. Even the cup of coffee I've just made isn't all that great.

As a talking point this must be of interest to you as its the one which has got the most out of you in a long while.

So where do you stand? I think my theory that iStyle for iGents is probably the best that this medium of ours can muster is sound. It's a basic limitation of trying to use the Net.

'Trad' does well online purely because online people like it. It's that whole fantasy world thing - The Fedora-Factor.
Ivy League style does less well because it lacks that lovely game of let's pretend.

This certainly isn't the last shot in my arsenal as you started off by saying. It's just another talking point in a talking shop. "Agitation for agitation's sake" is indeed wide of the mark, but keeping the banter flowing IS of interest to me. Hence conversations like this.

Best -

 

#48 2009-04-09 08:02:08

AQG
Member
From: The Sticks
Posts: 1306

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

I have yet to see the internet do better than Trad.  Thing is, Russell, it never will by your standards because it is the ultimate insult to them.  Ivy for you marks your status in the elite tribe of the sussed.  People who are in the know and different than the masses because of it.  The cool, the hip, the wearers of a style near moribund for forty years.  But here's the rub.  The internet is a mass media.  The more hits on a thread, the better.  Even you relish that sort of attention.  The problem is, if the masses get hold of your Ivy schtick, they can do it, too and its no longer the marker of the elect.

And, you know what, old boy, the masses have!  I warned you about looking into the abyss and you didn't listen.  You boldly set forth into the world of interet clothing fora and they're dominated by Americans.  Any one of us can spend an hour on a computer with a credit card and come up Russell Street.  Nothing easier and it's cheap for us, too.  Press on sale and Land's End anytime.  Two stops and we're done.  Oh, but you'll protest that we could but don't end up looking like you because we don't have the knack, the style, the hardness, the suss.  Truth is, we know what to do but we've gone beyond that.

Take any Trad wearing a suit on a what are you wearing thread.  Replace anything remotely fun or with a pronounced color with the most fucking drab variant avaible and you've got your hard man in London.  Your votary of Ivy the way it was in the Cold War.  You know, that stuff was okay for the dark days of the Atom Bomb, but it's broad sunlit uplands now and in America, we're having fun.  We've hauled out the color and the whales and all the fun and rediculous stuff and we glory in every self-indulgent, self-mocking minute of it. 

And you, Russell Street, can't stand it because you can't do it.  You aren't American and you aren't free like we are.  You can't wear something preposterous and self-mocking because that would just deflate the whole big suss baloon.  If you ambled down the High Street in an even mildly preppy get-up English children would probably cross the street to avoid you and if John Simons saw you, you'd never be able to show your face in the Metropolis again.  Your sartorial world is closed off.  Stagnant.  That's why you've got nothing knew and can't do better.  The Trads are free to play.  You're just another English relic and bizarrely miscegenated one at that.

This is the world of the internet.  If that's uncomfortable for you, you could always crawl back into the confines of that costume shop in Covent Garden.

 

#49 2009-04-09 08:21:40

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

#50 2009-04-09 09:01:56

Taylor McIntyre
Son of Ivy...
Posts: 342

Re: How Deep Is Your Love?

 

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