It looks like tom22 got himself wacked. He seemed kind of cranky as of late, but I'm surprised he's deleted.

I assumed that he already was a BB.

2 other things:

Tomasso, I want to disagree (respectfully, of course) with a comment you made on that thread in question, that (I paraphrase), it's useless to "rank" makers.  In general, I think "ranking" can be a very useful way to order your values and reaffirm hierarchy.  Of course the system of ranking may be flawed, but I don't think the practice of ranking is without value.

Second, and on the same thread,  pagliacci would have us believe that only those with "experience" making shirts are qualified or (indeed able) to understand enough to rank them (or indeed, it would seem, even to discuss them).  This is one of those specious (but common) modern beliefs.  Understanding is not confined to experience, direct or otherwise.  There are many other forms of knowledge (more valid to my mind):  insight, learning, etc.  I don't have to be a carpenter to know that a table is built poorly.  And I don't have to be a shirtmaker (or even know how to make a shirt), to judge a shirt better than someone who does know how to make one.

I think rankings are useful only to the degree that it is understood that any given ranking is very personal and subjective, after all we are talking about clothing. Not everyone shares the same practical, economic, and aesthetic points of view. Sometimes, however, the opinion and experience of others within their context can be helpful in creating our own judgement

Regarding the carpenter analogy, I think it is natural that an experienced, world-class tailor or shirtmaker will always be, hopefully, better at evaluating a shirt from a technical point of view than any customer; however, only the customer knows what he likes or not, and said tailors and shirtmakers very seldom participate on message boards.

These forums are to discuss style, not The Style, as enforced, for example, by some "expert" or authority of a MB LOL. I keep coming back to FNB because this is the only forum where the former concept prevails.

On other note regarding the recent shirt threads on the other board, the assertion that shirt cutters who don't use split yokes are less knowledgeable cutters is quite narrow minded.  If this were true, then top Italian makers like Aprea, Siviglia, Merolla, Matuozzo, Battistoni, etc. don't know what they are doing. Split yokes are only an aesthetic trait to orient patterned fabrics in any preferred direction at the yoke; single yokes when cut right can accommodate any physique a shirt as we know it can be made for. Some like them, some don't... great! But why associate this preference with lack of knowledge?

Last edited by Miles Away (2006-08-31 10:57:00)

Last edited by Voltaire's Bastard (2006-08-31 12:20:54)

It's intriguing to me that the different forums reflect the taste level and social adjustment of the person or folks running it. I haven't seen a single "Tyrwhitt vs. Lewin?" post here. Here it feels free but there is order. Other places it is rules bound but feels like chaos.