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#1 2006-09-13 15:45:44

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

English vs. American style.

Some General Observations:


The British like bold shirts and neckties that match in a certain way and have a rich look.

They seem to develop their own style earlier even if that style can be incredibly conformist or totally odd.

No Brown suede in the city. The English are in many ways quite doctrinal about what they wear and where they wear it. Clothing isn’t costume or a palette to enjoy and work off of. Tailored clothing is something to wear because you have to or it is expected.

The English separate their lives into compartments. One wears something different in town vs. country. Even if the town and country are states of mind rather than actual locations. Thus owning brown shoes are the shabby little secret of more than one Englishman. For Americans to understand some of the undertows that pull at the English with regards to clothes, we have to understand that to wear a tan suit to the office in London or brown suede shoes carries the equivalent stigma of asking an American to go to his office in a tutu.

Theoretically, the English have color, fabric weight, texture, finishing, and all items of clothing neatly filed into useful segments. In some ways this limits the choices but in other ways it creates a comfortable world of selections for a given function. If you go to someone’s country house, it is tweed jacket, tattersall shirt, moleskin pants, double soled, pebble grained country calf boots in brown, wool tie and at the office it is striped suit, striped or checked  shirt and whatever woven tie you happen to grab first. It is important for the Englishman to appear not to care about his clothes. From one point of view it appears that the English identify their character and station via their clothes. In other words, clothes for the white collar worker in London are not something to wear merely for fun, they are a uniform not dissimilar to what the butcher, the baker and the paraffin engineer wear when plying their craft.

When they are in the “colonies” they will wear more flamboyant or lightly colored clothes than they would ever dream of sporting on Albion. Silk suits, tan suits, white shoes are all fair game when in Borneo.

In America it’s quite different, We are the colonies! 365 days a year.

Americans like a more serendipitous style, they match a lot more. Brown suede shoes have become a favorite. Animals on ties seem to be more favored and Italian styles whether Milanese or Neapolitan. Even if they will salivate when you say Savile Row, they seem to prefer the Italian mode.

Deep in our national imagination we tend to identify with the fast and tough talking detectives in film noir as a more masculine, ironic humored approach to clothes.

I think also Englishmen and American men have come from different evolutionary branches. The English style is derived mostly from their upper classes and the only lower class influences are the occasional mod or punk infusing a little bit of shock. The men seem to not care about matching colors or textures or patterns and just worry bout looking smart. There doesn’t seem to be any apologies about a class system there, so wearing your school tie on a wild shirt is permissible. Though it does sometimes seem like the real English shirt is more a Bengal or butcher stripe.

Also, the English walk differently, they aspire to a different life or lifestyle, which affects posture and gait and even the lilt of their voices.

In America, we took a lot from the English/Scottish upper-class and then it was mutated by a variety of influences that haven’t touched the English male. First, the concept of the popular, carefree man as personified by Fred Astaire, was taken from African American males. They couldn’t appear on screen and Astaire, who performed with them off screen, appropriated their demeanors and disseminated them throughout the country and into the male attitude. African Americans couldn’t afford lots of clothes or even the best, but they were interested in clothes as a class raising device. Their approach was to infuse, attitude and style into the ensemble. Thus, hat brim angles, and the way one walked in a suit became as important as the cut and fabrics. An American zeitgeist was born and again spread by whites in the jazz age.

Also, we underplay the amount of influence women's fashions and gay fashion has had on the American male. The female penchant for matching things is an American male concern. Matching tie to shirt, matching belt to shoes or braces to shirt, or even tie to suit! The concern with matching has its roots in that movie "American Gigolo", and the rise of designers here, many of whom were trained to design for women first. The women’s clothing market dwarfs the men’s clothing market and the male collections are often an offshoot from a given fashion house. If it is true that a lot of gay men find their way into these design houses and design for men then many of their beliefs are also stamped into the collections of what makes a man better dressed or attractive. But whether or not that can be measured, definitely the gay communities attention to fit (and fitness) for sexual enhancement has changed the American male's body and the way and the reasons he gets dressed.

Gangster movies are another definite contribution to the American Male's approach to attire. And, now the Milanese and Neapolitans are moving in and taking over, it’s like a series of civilized style invasions here in the USA while England has remained relatively untouched. And so, the American mélange creates a very different style from their British cousins.

 

#2 2006-09-14 00:04:04

manicturncoat
Member
From: Paris, France
Posts: 45

Re: English vs. American style.

I don't think brown suede is as taboo as you make out to be in London, for day wear, at least.

 

#3 2006-09-14 00:38:27

Afro Saxon
Member
From: Connecticut
Posts: 90

Re: English vs. American style.

Very good FNB. You may have to sue me copyright infringement soon, I plan on appropriating a couple paragraphs

 

#4 2006-09-14 18:15:59

Van
Member
Posts: 14

Re: English vs. American style.

Interesting comments, thanks.

I've never seen a Brit in white shoes though thankfully.


Fashion is what you adopt when you don't know who you are.
Quentin Crisp

 

#5 2006-09-14 20:26:59

passingtime
Member
Posts: 57

Re: English vs. American style.

As a Brit in New York I have to say that post rings disturbingly true. When I arrived here all my shoes, with one exception, were black. This has changed and I have now settled at about 50:50 black to brown although I tend towards darker shades in the browns.

I still only wear black shoes for business and can't really contemplate anything else, years of working in London have seen to that. However despite the Hush Puppy stigma I have bought a pair of brown suede shoes and with practise I hope soon to be able to go out in them :-)

 

#6 2006-09-15 18:11:52

arenn
Member
Posts: 26

Re: English vs. American style.

I spent some time working in the UK this summer and I must say, while I certainly noticed the checkered shirts with spread collars and big knot ties, I saw several instances of brown shoes.  Perhaps I frequented the wrong type of establishment.  I even wore non-black shoes myself occassionally and received no negative commentary or looks.

If brown dress shoes are so famously frowned on, why then do places like Edward Green carry a huge selection of brown?  Is it all for the tourists?  Maybe, but the brown shoes I saw in Marks and Spencer certainly weren't.

Last edited by arenn (2006-09-15 18:13:00)

 

#7 2006-09-15 19:40:58

Will
Member
From: San Francisco
Posts: 239

Re: English vs. American style.


Will's thoughts on classic men's clothing
http://www.asuitablewardrobe.net/

 

#8 2006-09-16 10:09:31

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: English vs. American style.

 

#9 2006-09-16 10:15:01

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: English vs. American style.

Oh - The English!


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#10 2006-09-16 10:20:25

Marc Grayson
Member
Posts: 8860

Re: English vs. American style.


"‘The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inner tranquility which even religion is powerless to bestow." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Looking good and dressing well is a necessity. Having a purpose in life is not."  Oscar Wilde

 

#11 2006-09-16 10:23:15

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: English vs. American style.

 

#12 2006-09-16 10:32:05

Marc Grayson
Member
Posts: 8860

Re: English vs. American style.

"Say 'No' to brown shoes but 'Si' to nice red uniforms"


"‘The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inner tranquility which even religion is powerless to bestow." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Looking good and dressing well is a necessity. Having a purpose in life is not."  Oscar Wilde

 

#13 2006-09-16 10:38:29

Film Noir Buff
Dandy Nightmare
From: Devil's Island
Posts: 9345

Re: English vs. American style.

 

#14 2006-09-21 00:43:27

Marc Grayson
Member
Posts: 8860

Re: English vs. American style.

American style, with its more generous and relaxed fit, is generally comfortable.  English suits and sportcoats, with their characteristic high armholes and closely nipped-in waist, can be rather uncomfortable.  When I went through my British phase, I was never really comfortable in their clothes because I always was very conscious of wearing a coat and even being constricted by it.  In this latter instance, form and function work against each other to the wearer's detriment.


"‘The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inner tranquility which even religion is powerless to bestow." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Looking good and dressing well is a necessity. Having a purpose in life is not."  Oscar Wilde

 

#15 2006-09-21 02:44:16

Miles Away
Member
From: Miles away
Posts: 1180

Re: English vs. American style.

I think too that, along with the fit and sizing, the fact that the American cut has a soft construction also adds a lot to its comfort.
It seems to go with, not against the body in some way to my mind.


" ... Ubi bene, ibi patria, which being roughly translated means, 'Wherever there's a handout, that's for me, man.' "
Alistair Cooke. 1968.

 

#16 2006-09-21 05:48:52

Marc Grayson
Member
Posts: 8860

Re: English vs. American style.

The so-called "drape" signature of English tailoring houses such as Anderson is also overly romanticized if not mysticized.  Horses for courses, I suppose, however to my eyes, drape is nothing more than excessive cloth in the chest and back areas that does nothing to flatter the human form and, indeed, detracts from it.


"‘The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inner tranquility which even religion is powerless to bestow." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Looking good and dressing well is a necessity. Having a purpose in life is not."  Oscar Wilde

 

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