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#1 2009-05-19 09:41:30
- Ian Strachan's Raincoat
- Member
- Posts: 521
Viva Brooks!
Brooks were my first Ivy love - though I didn't know the phrase 'Ivy League' way back then - and it's nice to know they still get the thumbs up from some people. All right, the shops are, at best, 'Ivy Lite': one venture into Regent Street was enough for me: but their old stuff still takes a bit of beating IMO. I know some made the journey from Brooks to Press, but it might be worth considering going in the opposite direction. With me, Press stuff has tended to fall by the wayside. Some Brooks has, too, but not as much. The classic white OCBD I'm wearing now, the suit I was wearing yesterday - just very, very dependable.
Brooks get the thumbs up from Paddy, and he knows his onions.
Chris? Gibson? Brideshead? Kingstonian? Hill Rise?
#2 2009-05-19 10:14:45
- Natural Sole Brother
- Ivy, naturally.
- Posts: 782
Re: Viva Brooks!
Agreed. You have to go a fair way back into the Press story to find truly beautiful clothes: I reckon the best part of thirty years.
Over that time Brooks has sold a few staples which are truly indispensable: the pre-2002 OCBD, the navy sack blazer, the poplin sack suit and (in the spirit of 'ballsiness') the polo coat. it also has to be said that, in my eyes at least, the unlined cordovan LHS made by Alden for Brooks are (over time) worth a hundred pairs of even the very best Weejuns.
Brooks tailored clothing from before the 80s is often truly special and well worth looking out for in the various vintage markets both online and off. If you haven't already read the article on the front page of the forum on the subject of Brooks 1960-80 I would urge you to do so: it's essential and inspirational reading.
In the light of its sterling historical legacy of course it's kind of upsetting that we can't experience the brand in that golden phase of expression. It's been a different animal as a business for a long time and has had to sell to a market beyond its illustrious historical one for maybe too long. My fear is that simple numbers will stop it connecting with its past in any meaningful way beyond paying lip-service to modern day marketing-led notions of 'heritage', 'history' and 'legacy'.
I've noticed the poplin sack has disappeared from the website: I hope this is only temporary, as it's a great entry level piece of pure Ivy kit: superficially unobtrusive, democratic and utilitarian; but to the practiced eye unmistakably 'right'. A creeping sign of the brand losing touch with the very last remnants of that heritage perhaps.
I'm guessing the button down shirt will be the last link with the past to go. Given that they're not quite as good as they used to be the Brooks OCBD is still better than most current examples from competitors. They'll always get a degree of qualified support from this quarter for that reason alone.
Last edited by Natural Sole Brother (2009-05-19 10:17:05)
#3 2009-05-19 10:55:58
- Klook
- Member
- Posts: 152
Re: Viva Brooks!
I think if you can separate what Brooks was and just look at what they have there's still quite a bit to recommend it.
Their shirts, not just the OCBD but all their buttondowns, are great and the slim-fit is a fantastic cut, the best I've found. It's not restricting or hugging but nicely fitted.
Their take on the G9 is also impressive. Surprisingly slim cut, plenty of inside pockets, the lining is in shirt fabric rather than that tartan which for me makes the Baracuta not an option, and because it begins deeper into the jacket it's less visible than on a true G9.
BB is far from Ivy heaven, in fact most of their stock is either bland or nasty, but there are always a few things I want or at least like. In 2009 that's not bad going.
I have to add that even with that to recommend them, the Regent Street shop is a shambles and my BB splurges only take place on US soil. It feels better that way.
#4 2009-05-19 11:14:36
- Ian Strachan's Raincoat
- Member
- Posts: 521
Re: Viva Brooks!
Both excellent responses, gentlemen, for which you are to be commended. This level of debate keeps the forum intelligent and constructive. We need more like you.
#5 2009-05-19 11:21:03
- Tom Rath
- Member
- Posts: 172
Re: Viva Brooks!
What Brooks does right currently is incredibly limited: Alden shoes, slim fit OCBDs, and treasures like Mr. Davis in the shirting department (there are others from the golden age still around as well) . Honestly cant think of anything else worth mentioning.
If you are lucky enough to be of an age to have shopped at the Brooks of old, back in the heyday, or if you have owned some of their vintage clothes, you would realize how pathetic Brooks actually is today.
The poplin sacks? the ones made in Thailand you mean? The OCBDs? The ones made in Mayalsia? The G9? The one made in Hong Kong? The repp ties? The ones that are as wide as lobster bibs these days? I could go on for an hour picking apart just about everything they make.
I dont mean to turn this discussion into "wasnt everything better in 1962" or a condemnation of overseas production, because I dont subscribe to either of those philosophies en masse. However, in the case of Brooks, its quite true sadly.
#7 2009-05-19 11:49:43
- Tom Rath
- Member
- Posts: 172
Re: Viva Brooks!
Fair points all, Klook.
I used to go to a bar in NYC that marketed itself as a real British pub. I hadn't been to London yet in my life, and really thought that this place must be the real thing. It had Premier League memorabilia on the walls and whatnot. After I went to a real pub in London for the first time I realized how wrong I was about that bar in NYC. My point is, if you have seen the real thing, the manufactured imitation just doesn't cut it. And thats all Brooks is nowadays.
#8 2009-05-19 12:27:17
- Natural Sole Brother
- Ivy, naturally.
- Posts: 782
Re: Viva Brooks!
Last edited by Natural Sole Brother (2009-05-19 13:40:16)
#10 2009-05-19 14:06:25
- Tom Rath
- Member
- Posts: 172
Re: Viva Brooks!
I haven't seen the Thai examples first hand but have to wonder "how bad can they be?"
All true of course, but I'll take what I can get.
The fact that they offer any 'heritage' items at all is cause for muted celebration.
BB is far from Ivy heaven, in fact most of their stock is either bland or nasty, but there are always a few things I want or at least like. In 2009 that's not bad going.
----------
The above sentiments sum it up for me. What what used to be the gold standard, its a joke how far they have fallen.
The Thai made poplin suit is a piece of junk, but I certainly agree that its tough to swallow spending a hefty sum on what is essentially a disposable suit.
#13 2009-05-19 14:38:17
- Tom Rath
- Member
- Posts: 172
Re: Viva Brooks!
I like the Brooks stuff I own, as should you. It bothers me that they used to be so great. If they always sucked it would be easier to accept them as they are. Its like seeing a recent picture of Bridget Bardot after seeing one from when she was 20.
#14 2009-05-19 15:00:20
- Hard Bop Hank
- Ivy Soul Brother
- From: land of a 1000 dances
- Posts: 4923
Re: Viva Brooks!
Brooks Brothers jackets used to have a natural shoulder line... sigh...
“No Room For Squares”
”All political art is bad – all good art is political.”
"Would there be any freedom of press or speech if one must reduce his vocabulary to vapid innocuous euphemisms?"
#17 2009-05-19 19:12:43
- Decline & Fall
- Ivyist At Large
- Posts: 850
Re: Viva Brooks!
This is a great thread! Really solid information on which informed purchases can be or not be made. NSB, I really rate your comments here (though I'm generally a huge fan of your usual bits of sarcasm). I would love to hear some more details on why you rate the BB Aldens so much. I genuinely am a sucker for details and would love to hear why they're so much better. This how us informed lot learn.
As my comments elsewhere have suggested, I am likely the most sympathetic with Klook's POV. I don't think anyone is doubting that BB was 99 percent better in the past, but we do really have to take the sartorial landscape of 2009 into mind.
I was used to a lot of shit Club Monaco / Banana Republic / department store crap when I made the first of many BB online purchases, and the stuff kills that other crap. The OCDBs are great and it's not like guys look bad in BB's non-iron tattersall / gingham prints. The teflon jokes are true but they still kill a lot of the stuff that is often nine million times more expensive. BulldogNH is right about greed and when everyone is a greedy bastard, it's important to remember that a lot of BB stuff is actually much better bang for buck than a lot of other things that as I just said sell for way more. I don' regret the $$$ I've dropped at BB; I do regret the dough dropped on other things.
"I like bars just after they open in the evening. When the air inside is still cool and clean and everything is shiny. The first quiet drink of the evening in a quiet bar-that's wonderful."
— Raymond Chandler
#22 2009-05-20 02:38:16
- 1966
- 1,966% Ivy
- Posts: 2382
Re: Viva Brooks!
Wearing a US made slim fit ocbd at the moment. Just plain nice.
It has no back pleats whatsoever - was this an option or did they just make them like this during a certain period?
#24 2009-05-20 05:38:06
- Taylor McIntyre
- Son of Ivy...
- Posts: 342
Re: Viva Brooks!
Slimfit in the 80's lacked the box pleat that the regular had.
#25 2009-05-20 05:44:22
- 1966
- 1,966% Ivy
- Posts: 2382
Re: Viva Brooks!
Cheers.
80s it is - I figured so but now I can rest my head.
It was an ebay find and it came slightly frayed, which was nice. Not afraid to fake the funk, me.