My wife just reminded me of the Brooks shirts I wore when we first met, about 15 years ago.  The collars on those frayed gently, but the collars on newer ones have split horribly.  Anyone else had this happen?

In spite of their output and influence - not to mention their shops and staff - now being dubious, the history speaks for itself; and there are numerous examples of Ivy stylists in the UK rating their past achievements more highly than any comparable outlet.  I'm genuinely pleased to see this, and more so that so many of you have contributed to this subject in such a way that the level of debate has been heightened.  Paddy has also expressed his satisfaction, and he's been wearing Brooks on and off for forty years now.  Many thanks to you all.

One other thing:  I bought about 4 or 5 RTW OCBD off the shelf (USA-made) about 2 years ago, and had the MTM made up last year (detailed in the other thread on the main board).  I thought the MTM was spot on and didn't mind paying whatever I paid for it ($125 or $150?).  That's fine with me.    A small price to pay for what I want.  I get the collar and cuffs unlined, everything perfect.  The tail the way it used to be.  The right length and scoop cut.    But I don't see the reg. fit OCBD's as being too compromised.  Lining in collars yes, probably same thinking that put the damn non-wrinkle into the pajamas.  What I don't get is the no love for the full cut Brooks shirt among the English.  That full cut is the style, man.  Shit, you got to have that, er "drape," if you'll pardon the use of that troublesome i-gent word.  I know at one time you English were super-thin, but didn't your betters start feeding you at some point during the industrial revolution?  I've got to take you lads to 21 for a steak and a scotch.  Maybe the chef's salad.   Even if the full cut if voluminous, that's part of the Ivy look, no?

On balance I think I just prefer the tradd fit myself. Better ventilation for a start.

I'm pretty skinny but wouldn't want the slim-fit even an inch closer anywhere.

Despite the history of the full fit, I have a very simple theory about it - I wouldnt wear a pair of pants 6 inches too big in the waist. I wouldnt wear a suit jacket that is 6 inches too big in the body or the sleeves, and I see no reason why that would be different with a shirt. I dont consider my shirts slim fit. They just fit. To each his own though.

I bought a swift half dozen shirts from the corsetted Gieves label from Gieves & Hawkes a couple of years back. Cheap out sourced crap really.

Looked okay when you stood up straight and held your gut in, but if you dared sit down, the buttons would be straining to break. Awful fit, awful quality, awful concept.

Come back, Tom Rath, we need you.