Longwing,

I've had a look at the Silver catalog.  The best one yet, in many respects.  But I did notice a few sportcoats with subtle darts.  And the suits on p. 14 have darts.  Though they're difficult to see.  The one on the right (the navy with white stripe) is the spitting image of the 2b Andover suit -- which I have.  Good price at $695.

For the sportcoats, it looks like the darts are limited to the British Blazer, the db blazer, and, I assume,  the velvet jacket.  It's about time someone put the trad back in southern trad.

The suits are different. The three button suit is described as a narrower cut, for the young and thin.  For the sportcoats they say they just add a 3rd button to their 2 button model.

Neither suits nor jackets seem to fit with their normal pricing strategy.  Don't understand that.  Last fall I bought some shetlands from them because the price seemed reasonable.  Turns out they were from Hong Kong.  Consequently I'm a little suspicious of these jackets, but eager to be proven wrong.

Interesting that Silver offers 'Shetlands' and 'Authentic Shetlands'. Would that stand up in court I wonder?
Fizzy wine can indeed be made in California, but that doesn't mean that you can call it Champagne.

I'm trying to get a handle on Southern Trad.

I think that of all the TNSIL offshoots (Trad, Preppy, etc) Southern Trad is the most undervalued member of the family over all, and probably the least understood. More than likely this is because that, compared to North-Eastern U.S. Trad, it often looks to have certain elements contained within it which are outside the 'cannon' of the Trad style as we generally think of it.

Dr. Alan on AAAC is my benchmark of Southern Trad as it is today.
Colour and, purely to my eye, a European sensibility at work in terms of the overall effect. Valid, but different to the Brooks/Press look we might imagine when we hear the word 'Trad'.

Mr Harris, I know from his earlier posts, hails from the south and used also to be in favour of colour in the 'Trad' wardrobe. I think he called it the 'Choatie' look, which certainly rings true as a description of the colourful Prep school look.
I think also Mr. Harris recalls knowing the name Ben Silver before he knew of Brooks Brothers, based on his late father's catalogues at home while growing up.
Added to this I recall his opinion that 'Traditional' styles of dress had remained more popular in the South than they had in the North in his experience and in his lifetime.

Hopefully I am remembering all of the above correctly.

So I'm seeing colour as being important, maybe texture also, and the 'Ben Silver' take on Trad as being central to this style - Is it fair to say that, although we have called it 'flash' & 'slick' here, what that really means is maybe just a slightly more adventurous style of dress than the 'Brahmins' favour?
A bit more fun loving?
Preppier maybe, in its resort-wear manifestation?

Am I on the right track here?

To me in England the South pretty much just means Seersucker  -Wrong, of course, but I offer that P.O.V. to show that, to an outsider, there is a case to explain the Southern take on the style a little better. Redwings, Duck-Head and Buffalo Creek Traders would be the few other names I could mention in this area. Beyond that I'm lost.

Any contribution is welcome to this. The objective is to analyse, not to criticise here.

Thanks -

Miles.

An obvious element I overlooked must be the climate of the South lending itself to lighter fabrics. Possibly that is linked to the use of colour also.

M.

I know, but I've forgotten.
What year did Ben Silver really kick in?
Not the old button-business, but the catalog producing Southern Trad outfitters?

Thanks,

So:

Ben Silver's catalogues start in 83/84 with buttons, ties, then blazers and much later clothes. Or so I'm informed by one who knows.
Is it fair therefore to call this manifestation of 'Southern Trad' more a child of the tail-end of Preppy than a DIRECT descendant of TNSIL?
It would account for the use of colour, which I see as being a feature at Silver, and also the slightly more European influence on the whole (Although Silver does have it's Tradly moments and has them often quite well).
Still a part of the overall term 'Trad' to be sure, but one that has come to us via the Preppy off-shoot.

I'm just trying to put Silver into context here. There is often much of interest in what they do, but I do think that they have come to us via a different route than the other big names. Not so much purely to do with them not being such an old clothing company as the big names, but more to do with them following a slightly different aesthetic. They're Trad with a twist, maybe? An updated take on Ivy. Still valid, but maybe not as purist?

Miles.

IMHO.

Color and sunshine go hand in hand.

Last edited by Miles Away (2006-09-26 05:45:18)

Horace,  Manton says that because the "seam" terminates at the top of the pocket instead of going all the way down to the bottom of the jacket it is not a seam but a dart. He calls it a rear dart which I'm sure is correct but a little confusing. The jacket front and the "side panel" are the same piece of fabric.  I noticed that this was a feature unique to my Douglas jackets and the line drawing in Ben Silver.  All my other jackets have true seams.