Toffeeman wrote:

Yuca - that's a very perceptive reading of the situation. I do worry about this. Good as the essay Barnes wrote about mods was (and I think the majority of the pictures are pretty awful) it was clearly one man's own reading of a wide and complex cultural phenomenon. I know many a young chap who got carried away with the minutiae of the whole thing only to end up disappearing up his own crack. Ivy's saving grace is twofold : firstly I think it's too subtle and too hard to really pin down. Nobody ever called themselves IVYIST.....(yet)..... And also if this does happen - no real big deal. Men go crazy hunting down suits with hooked vents, Alden declare record profits, John Simons is knighted and put in charge of Brooks Brothers. If truth be told it's Graham and mine's secret goal.

"A million seller"........speechless...........

TM

An 'Ivyist'.  That's rather good.  Round here I am known as 'that mod bloke'.  I do not look, I don't think, anything like a mod and have not done so since I gave up wearing Bladen, white Levis etc. etc.  I was assured that there was no malice behind it.

Lord Simons of Hill Rise and his trusty knaves, Sir Kenneth of Brentford , Baron Geoffrey of Essex and the Jester Lally

Toffeeman wrote:

Yuca - that's a very perceptive reading of the situation. I do worry about this. Good as the essay Barnes wrote about mods was (and I think the majority of the pictures are pretty awful) it was clearly one man's own reading of a wide and complex cultural phenomenon. I know many a young chap who got carried away with the minutiae of the whole thing only to end up disappearing up his own crack. Ivy's saving grace is twofold : firstly I think it's too subtle and too hard to really pin down. Nobody ever called themselves IVYIST.....(yet)..... And also if this does happen - no real big deal. Men go crazy hunting down suits with hooked vents, Alden declare record profits, John Simons is knighted and put in charge of Brooks Brothers. If truth be told it's Graham and mine's secret goal.

"A million seller"........speechless...........

TM

I've seen the word 'ivyist' used on here I'm sure.  And don't men (most/all of whom hang out on here) already go crazy seeking suits with hooked vents?  And I strongly suspect Alden's profits have gone up considerably in recent years, albeit more from the trad movement than the ivyist gang.

A million seller - well I suspect that took a couple of decades in Barnes' case, so don't give up your day job.

I have a suspicion that the ivy scene in the UK has parallels with the mod scene just prior to the 'film' Quadrophenia appearing i.e. a few fanatics scattered around the country, with new additions appearing regularly.  Obviously the similarities are not that great and we won't see a mass appearance of plastic ivyists, who become scooterists several years later (or will we?) but the style might make its presence felt more than it is now.  The demand for TIL may be a sign of that and could also prove a catalyst.

There have been a few new additions to this site recently, I wonder how many people out there are reinventing their style due to this site, The Ivy League Look site and/or The Ivy Look book? 

I wouldn't consider it cause for worry though.

Last edited by Yuca (2010-09-15 09:40:44)

Ivy is too easy and therefore too difficult.  It will not appeal to a mass audience.  There is no uniform.  It's too restrained, too - if I may be permitted to use the word - 'geeky', altogether too conservative, deep, exclusive and demanding.  Too many would reject even the basics.  A mod, making the transition, might wonder if he is doing the right thing.  He is no longer part of a visible 'something'; people no longer recognise him.  His clothing has become, in the eyes of many, somewhat 'commonplace', mundane even.  It is largely 'alien' (as Russell Street has noted), and it takes great determination to become a modest part of the wider landscape: not putting on a show.  The personal choices are complex, too - or can be.  They needn't be but often are.

Ivy, you see, is easy and therefore too difficult.

Thank you very much, Alex.  I had drunk an unaccustomed glass of Australian Merlot with my Italian dinner.

So...  the mass marketing once again of Fred Perry polo shirts, Levis and desert boots?  Besides, even Hewitt was probably right about the consequences: the originals were down at Ronnie Scotts and their younger brothers joined them there.

Come on, John.  Be of good cheer.  I just can't believe it'll happen that way, that's all.

I agree Alex, Rip captures its paradoxical qualities, like RS often does.

An alien style that would be considered mundane by many? Get outta here. It's spot on though.

How such a "mundane" qualification has come about is something that still puzzles me. It implies a certain familiarity with the style among its outsiders. Most people will recognize it but hardly anyone will be able to pinpoint it.

Last edited by 1966 (2010-09-15 11:19:41)

People carry it around in their subconscious and hence they're not conscious of it. Basically, this is Post War American Culture at work.

Last edited by 1966 (2010-09-15 11:29:54)

Toffeeman wrote:

Rip Rig & Panic wrote:

Ivy is too easy and therefore too difficult.  It will not appeal to a mass audience.  There is no uniform.  It's too restrained, too - if I may be permitted to use the word - 'geeky', altogether too conservative, deep, exclusive and demanding.  Too many would reject even the basics.  A mod, making the transition, might wonder if he is doing the right thing.  He is no longer part of a visible 'something'; people no longer recognise him.  His clothing has become, in the eyes of many, somewhat 'commonplace', mundane even.  It is largely 'alien' (as Russell Street has noted), and it takes great determination to become a modest part of the wider landscape: not putting on a show.  The personal choices are complex, too - or can be.  They needn't be but often are.

Ivy, you see, is easy and therefore too difficult.

Yes but this was all true of the original mod(ernist) thing and look what happened to that....

TM

I wonder if - riding their Lambrettas, say - the original modernists were rather more noticeable than Ivy dressers.  I guess the newspapers were eager to spot 'Italian tendencies' in the young.  Lloyd Johnson would be the one to ask.  Anyway, any young herbert contemplating subversion would be compelled to lend an ear to Roland Kirk many times over.  Back he'd go to Hackett sharpish.

I popped out of my home last night to buy a pint of milk and was accosted by a gang of teenagers (average age probably 17), all wearing identical scruffy pea coats (many with slogans written on the back) chanting 'We are the ivyists' and looking for someone to fill in.  Indeed it's only because one of the more clued-up members noticed I was wearing no break chinos and loafers that I escaped a beating, and even then they were very disgruntled that I didn't want to hang out with them.

Toffeeman you've created a monster!

Yuca wrote:

I popped out of my home last night to buy a pint of milk and was accosted by a gang of teenagers (average age probably 17), all wearing identical scruffy pea coats (many with slogans written on the back) chanting 'We are the ivyists' and looking for someone to fill in.  Indeed it's only because one of the more clued-up members noticed I was wearing no break chinos and loafers that I escaped a beating, and even then they were very disgruntled that I didn't want to hang out with them.

Toffeeman you've created a monster!

This is shocking. It can only be a question of time before the first OAP is weejuned to death for his golf jacket! I will get onto the Daily Mail about this.

I have the book on pre-order, hopefully it's as good as everyone says!

Toffeeman you need to do a Kubric (re. A Chocolate Orange) on this one - withdraw it now before fatalities ensue.