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#251 2010-09-15 08:55:43

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

Toffeeman wrote:

Yuca - that's a very perceptive reading of the situation. I do worry about this. Good as the essay Barnes wrote about mods was (and I think the majority of the pictures are pretty awful) it was clearly one man's own reading of a wide and complex cultural phenomenon. I know many a young chap who got carried away with the minutiae of the whole thing only to end up disappearing up his own crack. Ivy's saving grace is twofold : firstly I think it's too subtle and too hard to really pin down. Nobody ever called themselves IVYIST.....(yet)..... And also if this does happen - no real big deal. Men go crazy hunting down suits with hooked vents, Alden declare record profits, John Simons is knighted and put in charge of Brooks Brothers. If truth be told it's Graham and mine's secret goal.

"A million seller"........speechless...........

TM

An 'Ivyist'.  That's rather good.  Round here I am known as 'that mod bloke'.  I do not look, I don't think, anything like a mod and have not done so since I gave up wearing Bladen, white Levis etc. etc.  I was assured that there was no malice behind it.

 

#252 2010-09-15 09:01:37

Toffeeman
Member
Posts: 103

Re: The Ivy Book

Fit young posh women in Hatchards - yes Adam I'm with you. Seen the little minx on the main desk on the right as you enter? Dear me. Makes my middle aged ticker go all a thumpin she does...

Glad they sold 2 more copies today. Now reorder it you fuckers! (the bookshop, not the customers)

TM

 

#253 2010-09-15 09:12:39

Hill Rise
Member
Posts: 84

Re: The Ivy Book

Lord Simons of Hill Rise and his trusty knaves, Sir Kenneth of Brentford , Baron Geoffrey of Essex and the Jester Lally

 

#254 2010-09-15 09:13:09

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

LOL!

 

#255 2010-09-15 09:34:32

Yuca
Member
Posts: 4606

Re: The Ivy Book

Toffeeman wrote:

Yuca - that's a very perceptive reading of the situation. I do worry about this. Good as the essay Barnes wrote about mods was (and I think the majority of the pictures are pretty awful) it was clearly one man's own reading of a wide and complex cultural phenomenon. I know many a young chap who got carried away with the minutiae of the whole thing only to end up disappearing up his own crack. Ivy's saving grace is twofold : firstly I think it's too subtle and too hard to really pin down. Nobody ever called themselves IVYIST.....(yet)..... And also if this does happen - no real big deal. Men go crazy hunting down suits with hooked vents, Alden declare record profits, John Simons is knighted and put in charge of Brooks Brothers. If truth be told it's Graham and mine's secret goal.

"A million seller"........speechless...........

TM

I've seen the word 'ivyist' used on here I'm sure.  And don't men (most/all of whom hang out on here) already go crazy seeking suits with hooked vents?  And I strongly suspect Alden's profits have gone up considerably in recent years, albeit more from the trad movement than the ivyist gang.

A million seller - well I suspect that took a couple of decades in Barnes' case, so don't give up your day job.

I have a suspicion that the ivy scene in the UK has parallels with the mod scene just prior to the 'film' Quadrophenia appearing i.e. a few fanatics scattered around the country, with new additions appearing regularly.  Obviously the similarities are not that great and we won't see a mass appearance of plastic ivyists, who become scooterists several years later (or will we?) but the style might make its presence felt more than it is now.  The demand for TIL may be a sign of that and could also prove a catalyst.

There have been a few new additions to this site recently, I wonder how many people out there are reinventing their style due to this site, The Ivy League Look site and/or The Ivy Look book? 

I wouldn't consider it cause for worry though.

Last edited by Yuca (2010-09-15 09:40:44)


'some sort of banal legitimacy'

'vintage advertisement, film, or album cover'

 

#256 2010-09-15 09:45:20

Yuca
Member
Posts: 4606

Re: The Ivy Book

Just to add, I think it is obvious that only a relatively small number of people will ever bother to fly in the face of fashion and take excessive trouble to acquire items that are only available from a very small number of sources, which is what ivy in the UK requires.  I was not suggesting (in the previous post) that ivy will become mainstream, it's too far removed from modern fashion.

Last edited by Yuca (2010-09-15 09:47:57)


'some sort of banal legitimacy'

'vintage advertisement, film, or album cover'

 

#257 2010-09-15 10:48:41

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

Ivy is too easy and therefore too difficult.  It will not appeal to a mass audience.  There is no uniform.  It's too restrained, too - if I may be permitted to use the word - 'geeky', altogether too conservative, deep, exclusive and demanding.  Too many would reject even the basics.  A mod, making the transition, might wonder if he is doing the right thing.  He is no longer part of a visible 'something'; people no longer recognise him.  His clothing has become, in the eyes of many, somewhat 'commonplace', mundane even.  It is largely 'alien' (as Russell Street has noted), and it takes great determination to become a modest part of the wider landscape: not putting on a show.  The personal choices are complex, too - or can be.  They needn't be but often are.

Ivy, you see, is easy and therefore too difficult.

 

#258 2010-09-15 10:56:12

Alex Roest
Member
From: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 2165

Re: The Ivy Book

Rip Rig & Panic wrote:

Ivy is too easy and therefore too difficult.  It will not appeal to a mass audience.  There is no uniform.  It's too restrained, too - if I may be permitted to use the word - 'geeky', altogether too conservative, deep, exclusive and demanding.  Too many would reject even the basics.  A mod, making the transition, might wonder if he is doing the right thing.  He is no longer part of a visible 'something'; people no longer recognise him.  His clothing has become, in the eyes of many, somewhat 'commonplace', mundane even.  It is largely 'alien' (as Russell Street has noted), and it takes great determination to become a modest part of the wider landscape: not putting on a show.  The personal choices are complex, too - or can be.  They needn't be but often are.

One of your best posts ever if I may say so Andy cool

 

#259 2010-09-15 11:01:45

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

Thank you very much, Alex.  I had drunk an unaccustomed glass of Australian Merlot with my Italian dinner.

 

#260 2010-09-15 11:04:08

Toffeeman
Member
Posts: 103

Re: The Ivy Book

Rip Rig & Panic wrote:

Ivy is too easy and therefore too difficult.  It will not appeal to a mass audience.  There is no uniform.  It's too restrained, too - if I may be permitted to use the word - 'geeky', altogether too conservative, deep, exclusive and demanding.  Too many would reject even the basics.  A mod, making the transition, might wonder if he is doing the right thing.  He is no longer part of a visible 'something'; people no longer recognise him.  His clothing has become, in the eyes of many, somewhat 'commonplace', mundane even.  It is largely 'alien' (as Russell Street has noted), and it takes great determination to become a modest part of the wider landscape: not putting on a show.  The personal choices are complex, too - or can be.  They needn't be but often are.

Ivy, you see, is easy and therefore too difficult.

Yes but this was all true of the original mod(ernist) thing and look what happened to that....

TM

 

#261 2010-09-15 11:07:54

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

So...  the mass marketing once again of Fred Perry polo shirts, Levis and desert boots?  Besides, even Hewitt was probably right about the consequences: the originals were down at Ronnie Scotts and their younger brothers joined them there.

Come on, John.  Be of good cheer.  I just can't believe it'll happen that way, that's all.

 

#262 2010-09-15 11:13:10

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

"Police were forced to intervene when fighting broke out between rival gangs of youths sporting pale blue shirts, khakis and saddle shoes in the early hours of this morning...  John Simons, self-styled 'King of the Ivyists', was brought in to restore order.  There were several arrests.  A police spokesman said..."

 

#263 2010-09-15 11:19:02

1966
1,966% Ivy
Posts: 2378

Re: The Ivy Book

I agree Alex, Rip captures its paradoxical qualities, like RS often does.

An alien style that would be considered mundane by many? Get outta here. It's spot on though.

How such a "mundane" qualification has come about is something that still puzzles me. It implies a certain familiarity with the style among its outsiders. Most people will recognize it but hardly anyone will be able to pinpoint it.

Last edited by 1966 (2010-09-15 11:19:41)


38S | 15/32 | 32/28 | US 8.5D/UK 8E
_______________________________

It is a pleasure to be able to quote lines to fit any occasion. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

#264 2010-09-15 11:23:09

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

Ah ha - and it's the failure to pinpoint that makes it so attractive.

 

#265 2010-09-15 11:26:10

1966
1,966% Ivy
Posts: 2378

Re: The Ivy Book

People carry it around in their subconscious and hence they're not conscious of it. Basically, this is Post War American Culture at work.

Last edited by 1966 (2010-09-15 11:29:54)


38S | 15/32 | 32/28 | US 8.5D/UK 8E
_______________________________

It is a pleasure to be able to quote lines to fit any occasion. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

#266 2010-09-15 11:29:42

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

It is, and it's deeply rooted.  For me it goes back to the 60s, to TV, comics, music and James Warren's monster magazines.  The United States had a glamour that England could never match.  What was 'The Beano' compared with a DC Eighty-Pager featuring The Flash or Superman?

 

#267 2010-09-15 12:40:07

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

Toffeeman wrote:

Rip Rig & Panic wrote:

Ivy is too easy and therefore too difficult.  It will not appeal to a mass audience.  There is no uniform.  It's too restrained, too - if I may be permitted to use the word - 'geeky', altogether too conservative, deep, exclusive and demanding.  Too many would reject even the basics.  A mod, making the transition, might wonder if he is doing the right thing.  He is no longer part of a visible 'something'; people no longer recognise him.  His clothing has become, in the eyes of many, somewhat 'commonplace', mundane even.  It is largely 'alien' (as Russell Street has noted), and it takes great determination to become a modest part of the wider landscape: not putting on a show.  The personal choices are complex, too - or can be.  They needn't be but often are.

Ivy, you see, is easy and therefore too difficult.

Yes but this was all true of the original mod(ernist) thing and look what happened to that....

TM

I wonder if - riding their Lambrettas, say - the original modernists were rather more noticeable than Ivy dressers.  I guess the newspapers were eager to spot 'Italian tendencies' in the young.  Lloyd Johnson would be the one to ask.  Anyway, any young herbert contemplating subversion would be compelled to lend an ear to Roland Kirk many times over.  Back he'd go to Hackett sharpish.

 

#268 2010-09-16 01:21:23

Yuca
Member
Posts: 4606

Re: The Ivy Book

Rip Rig & Panic wrote:

I wonder if - riding their Lambrettas, say - the original modernists were rather more noticeable than Ivy dressers.  I guess the newspapers were eager to spot 'Italian tendencies' in the young.  Lloyd Johnson would be the one to ask.  Anyway, any young herbert contemplating subversion would be compelled to lend an ear to Roland Kirk many times over.  Back he'd go to Hackett sharpish.

As ivy was part of the modernist look (by all accounts), presumably some orginal modernists did at times dress ivy.  The period has been barely documented, but it's certainly known that early modernists/mods were wearing US ocbds and shopping at Austin's, it must be likely that some of them also bought trousers, jackets, shoes etc in the same style.  (I'm aware there were also a number of ivy wearers in the early 60s UK - possibly the majority - who were decidedly not modernists.)

To repeat, the period has been barely documented, at the time or since - the only people in the media who bothered to take note at the time were Colin MacInnes and Town magazine, neither of whom reported an ivy influence (that I recall), but neither of them offer a comprehensive history of the era.


'some sort of banal legitimacy'

'vintage advertisement, film, or album cover'

 

#269 2010-09-16 01:43:30

Yuca
Member
Posts: 4606

Re: The Ivy Book

I popped out of my home last night to buy a pint of milk and was accosted by a gang of teenagers (average age probably 17), all wearing identical scruffy pea coats (many with slogans written on the back) chanting 'We are the ivyists' and looking for someone to fill in.  Indeed it's only because one of the more clued-up members noticed I was wearing no break chinos and loafers that I escaped a beating, and even then they were very disgruntled that I didn't want to hang out with them.

Toffeeman you've created a monster!


'some sort of banal legitimacy'

'vintage advertisement, film, or album cover'

 

#270 2010-09-16 01:48:03

Rip Rig & Panic
Member
Posts: 4697

Re: The Ivy Book

Yuca wrote:

I popped out of my home last night to buy a pint of milk and was accosted by a gang of teenagers (average age probably 17), all wearing identical scruffy pea coats (many with slogans written on the back) chanting 'We are the ivyists' and looking for someone to fill in.  Indeed it's only because one of the more clued-up members noticed I was wearing no break chinos and loafers that I escaped a beating, and even then they were very disgruntled that I didn't want to hang out with them.

Toffeeman you've created a monster!

LOL!!

 

#271 2010-09-16 02:07:35

Moose Maclennan
Ivy Inspiration
From: Hernando's Hideaway
Posts: 4238

Re: The Ivy Book

Yuca wrote:

I popped out of my home last night to buy a pint of milk and was accosted by a gang of teenagers (average age probably 17), all wearing identical scruffy pea coats (many with slogans written on the back) chanting 'We are the ivyists' and looking for someone to fill in.  Indeed it's only because one of the more clued-up members noticed I was wearing no break chinos and loafers that I escaped a beating, and even then they were very disgruntled that I didn't want to hang out with them.

Toffeeman you've created a monster!

This is shocking. It can only be a question of time before the first OAP is weejuned to death for his golf jacket! I will get onto the Daily Mail about this.


'You know there are some of us that are just fated to look like a mini-cab driver. It doesn't matter what clothes you put on, or how much you pay for them, you're still going to look like a mini-cab driver.' (John Peel)

 

#272 2010-09-16 02:25:05

Yuca
Member
Posts: 4606

Re: The Ivy Book

At least Stanley Cohen will have something to write a new book about.


'some sort of banal legitimacy'

'vintage advertisement, film, or album cover'

 

#273 2010-09-19 14:49:10

Big Tony
Member
Posts: 5478

Re: The Ivy Book

I have the book on pre-order, hopefully it's as good as everyone says!


"What sort of post-apocalyptic deathscape is this?"
"I don't want to look like a cock hungry sailor after all !!!"
"When it comes to infidelity, broken families, and reckless fatherhood, the underclass are amateurs."

 

#274 2010-09-19 15:36:43

Harpo
The Best In The West
From: West Wales
Posts: 2702

Re: The Ivy Book

Moose Maclennan wrote:

Yuca wrote:

I popped out of my home last night to buy a pint of milk and was accosted by a gang of teenagers (average age probably 17), all wearing identical scruffy pea coats (many with slogans written on the back) chanting 'We are the ivyists' and looking for someone to fill in.  Indeed it's only because one of the more clued-up members noticed I was wearing no break chinos and loafers that I escaped a beating, and even then they were very disgruntled that I didn't want to hang out with them.

Toffeeman you've created a monster!

This is shocking. It can only be a question of time before the first OAP is weejuned to death for his golf jacket! I will get onto the Daily Mail about this.

Oh, I've seem 'em, hanging around on street corners with Art Blakey patches on their duffle coats - out of thier minds on espresso and all g-ed up for a rumble after watching pirated Jean-Luc Godard films..... where will it all end?


Randy lower-class trifler

 

#275 2010-09-20 01:59:45

Yuca
Member
Posts: 4606

Re: The Ivy Book

Toffeeman you need to do a Kubric (re. A Chocolate Orange) on this one - withdraw it now before fatalities ensue.


'some sort of banal legitimacy'

'vintage advertisement, film, or album cover'

 

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