(Off-topic I admit but I have not yet forgotten a friend of my younger daughter, the child of parents who believed in, hey, 'free expression', plonking her Converse on my dining table.  With her feet still in them).

As a noted journalist once put it, 'We have exchanged the better for the worse'.

Spendthrift, totally get the point about Jobs, Branson, etc And agree they were exceptional talents. I'm really focused on the general working male.  I would never associate dressing well with success but I do think if you can be bothered with your appearance it can effect your state of mind. Look sharp feel sharp. The problem now is what constitutes sharp.

I genuinely think that if you don't bother with the basics you can easily forget them and not be able to pass them down. How to tie a simple four in hand, what size collar you are, simple pattern matching.

I have also noticed that men can be fairly scruffy and their partners not so when going out of an evening.

“If I watch a news report from some war torn corner of the world I don't expect him to be wearing a suit and tie - but if he's standing outside a library on Tooting High Street he shouldn't be wearing jeans and an anorak.??

The reporter might be channeling Wolfie Smith emerging from Tooting Broadway station. ‘Power to the People!’

The Wetherspoon in Tooting Broadway is a depressing one. No decent ales and customers from the school of hard knocks. A chap sat opposite me fell asleep. The staff woke him up and told him to drink faster. I recognised the barman from one of Spoons better establishments. I enquired about Tooting and he gave a non-commital answer. We then exchanged anecdotes of the great Spoons pubs that the company had chosen to shut down.

Last edited by Kingston1an (2022-01-13 02:37:07)

AlveyS, as usual I'm in complete agreement. I like getting my clothes ready the evening before. When I have time to properly consider. Rather than in the 'rush and tear' of a weekday morning. It doesn't take long but makes a huge difference.

I think there's a lot of not bothering with the basics. Actally I think it's more along the lines of settlling for the basics. Not just in mens clothing (I was in a local menswear shop a few weeks ago. A fella ambled in and said he needed a shirt for a wedding. "Certainly sir. What collar size are you?". "I dunno. Medium?") It's everywhere. I was driving through another town early this morning. It's not a great place, charity, chicken and Lettings shops mainly. But every shop signage was cheap, flat plastic at best. Most often banners half hanging off the wall above the window. No idea of the basic shop owner's concept that you have to present yourself well and tempt people in. Contrast that with JS. In keeping signage and decor. Well considered. Just glancing at it gives you a good idea of what they're offering to who. Even their daily Facebook post is most often very clearly well thought out. Given your job you might disagree? I have to hold my hand up and admit I've never been to Chiltern St.

TRS, Modern day sartorial crime number two : The young estate agent. Shiniest suit of the bluest blue you ever did see. Brown pointy shoes that will be replaced from Matalan when they need a polish. Because he is not aware that shoe polish is 'a thing'.

Kingston1an, Wetherspoons. I'm as guilty as the next man when it comes to enjoying a £2 pint. But like McD's and Burger King, I do feel dirty when I come out. Best one I had was when I asked what ales they do, "We have Magners, Coors and a guest ale. But I don't know what it is".... Looks at me as if to say, make your mind up mate. I haven't got all day.

Last edited by Spendthrift (2022-01-13 03:39:41)

I often go in the three Spoons in the Southend area to meet up with cousins who like cheap beer and I can confirm there is no dress code haha. I wear Ivy lite and my cousins are pretty smart dressers as well. I wouldn't recommend wearing a suit and knitted tie in such establishments.My regular pub in Leigh the 'Broadway' (Carlton) models itself on Spoons with cheap beer but no food. Some of the clientele maybe down on their luck but they all have a story to tell.

Funny thing. When my dad took me to buy my first suit when I left school, he told me to never break the stitches on the pockets. Apparently it would stop me stuffing sandwiches, calculators. Whatever a sixteen year old carries in there and ruining the line of the suit.

I don’t know if he was basing that on anything, and it’s a conversation we only had the once.

I very rarely wear a suit, weddings, funerals, but I always smile when I go to put something in the hip pocket and find it’s still stitched up.

Stax, I always feel at home and comfortable what ever the pub and it's environment . l do go into other pubs and pay double or treble the Spoon prices (4x the price in Finnish pubs). Living/working mostly abroad it is the English pub I miss most. Any English pub but I'm not sure I would want to walk into a pub with everyone dressed up in Ivy gear!

What gets me is when men spend money on clothes and then get it wrong. The pointy shoes unpolished, the ill-fitting suit etc. I didn't realise that there are  men out there who don't know their neck size in shirts. I have noticed in recent years that some shirts come in S M L XL.

Jaywick sands may well be a no go area for me! I'll have to try it. However, I've been in a rough pub in North Wales where everyone was speaking Welsh when I walked in and another pub in Galway where Gaelic was being spoken. No problem for me and I felt comfortable enough after I got my order in. As you know Stax I used to drink in the Blind Beggar. I just made sure I didn't spill anyone's drink or stare at anyone!
Working Men's clubs I have a big problem with. I went to West Ham working Man's club before a game and even though I was a local I felt very uncomfortable. Don't like the club atmosphere. You even have to be careful where you sit.

I  fly quite often and I remember when people used to dress up for a flight. Today everyone dresses like slobs. Rich Russians in particular seem to have a problem with clothing in a public environment.


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There was a great Spoons in Enniskillen. As far West in these isles as you could go and still get decent real ale. Guinness was not the only drink in town. Plus all the usual Spoons features. Then Spoons closed all their pubs West of the river Bann.

There is a magnificent Spoons in Tunbridge Wells - an old opera house. They still have a performance once a year apparently. Ales not so good in that one though.

Tim Martin has similar views to Mr. Farage. Though Nigel could turn up in Spoons suited and booted, or even wearing his yellow corduroys and nobody would criticise him.

Spoons carpets? I haven't paid much attention to carpets but I remember my family telling me that one night in the Elms, Leigh on sea the elderly members of the group were ushered out the door by nephews who recognised it was 'all going to kick off'. Sure enough it did and the carpet received some claret and I'm not talking wine.
I was in the same pub with two Finnish brother on laws who were assumed to be Polish workers taking local builders jobs. I was watched closely when I went to the bar and they relaxed when they heard my accent. I still like the pub enough to go there.

Temple Bar was a pleasure when I first went there in 1995.  A slightly - no, very - shabby boozer with the wallpaper hanging off in strips, a sticky carpet and a jazz policy.  I'd been up to my ears for years in Joyce, O'Casey, Beckett, Frank O'Connor, Wilde and the rest.  I loved Dublin.  Went back less than ten years later.  Oh dear. Bewley's gone (I'd enjoyed white pudding in there), Temple Bar tarted up, an arm and a leg for tea and a blueberry muffin at Trinity.  An Irishwoman confided in me that only English oddballs like myself had any interest in Irish culture; her own children certainly didn't.  Poor Yeats.  'Great hatred, little room'?